Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi guys and gals, I need help finding out whats the matter with
my snakes. I've taken them to the vet. No worms or mite problem.
All my snakes are long term pets. Every month a different one
stops eating till they wither and die. It seems to jump from enclosure to enclosure. I have no idea what the @#&&*** I should do!
Any and all info would help.

Hello, can you provide more details? What did the Vet say If anything? What kind of snakes? What are they set up in, substrate, temps, humidity? What are they eating, frozen/thawed or live and how often? Are they captive bred or wild caught? How old are they? How many do you have? Are they all in the same room? Did you think about having a vet perform a necropsy on one of the dead snakes? The more details the better, If you can think of anything extra to add just through it in. This sounds like a very serious issue and time may not be on your side?

I am not saying I can give you a diagnosis but there are some pretty intelligent folks in here that may be able to shed light on what's going on!!!!!!

Good luck!!!!!!!!! Jason
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Everyone Is In A Hurry To Get Nowhere Quick, Fast!!!!!!!!!!!

Vet said the stools were fine. Vet said she didnt find anything
when looked at and internally and externally. My snakes are bulls gophers and pines. Ive had them for 2 to 4 years, all captive born. None are newly bought. They eat frozen thawed every week, and have been all these years from the same person.
Substrate and temps have not changed. I have about 25 of them. All are in the same room for all this time. As I said, it seems I lose one every month. Help me please!

Dave

Dave,

As Jason indicated there is a lot of info missing but let's try to work this up.

Here are some questions that come to me upon reading your posts. Most captives could literally go months w/o a meal prior to dying. How much time passes from them becoming anorexic (refusing food) until you find them dead?

Do you have an exterminator at home monthly?, seasonally?

How much experience does your veterinarian have with reptile medicine? You need to ask her that question. If she is having difficulty diagnosing the problem you should ask her for a refferal. If she is unable or unwilling to provide you with one search online. There are a host of nasty pathogens out there that would be easily missed during a simple exam and fecal analysis.

What are you using to clean your enclosures? Bleach kills some organisms not others, amonia kills some but not others(don't mix these two), etc. Lysol can actually kill the reptiles. What are you using and what is your cleaning proceedure? Can the enclosures be taken out and dried in the sun?

At this point you need to do several things.

1) treat each snake as a carrier. Use sterile techniques when handling them to avoid cross contamination. I recommend latex gloves when doing any work with them as this is easier and more effective way to have "clean hands" between each animal (get several boxes from the vet clinic,they are cheap). Use caution when working from snake to snake taking care not to pass anything on. Change gloves between each set up remembering not to touch anything back or forward from the immidiate snake and his or her set up. We could potentially be talking virus or bacteria so think microscopic. No bedding, saliva, feces, dust, water from water dishes, etc., should make contact from one animal to another. It sounds intense but then again how many more do you want to watch die? Get the obviously sick ones into another room and always work them last. Get water dishes out and give them a good soaking in amonia, or one of the veterinary, animal safe, disinfectants. I can not think of any trade names at the moment other than Chlorohexiadin, but your vet should have access to a more complete list of options. Better yet, talk your wife into letting you use the dishwasher and set it on sterilize or self dry. Remember to rinse well as you do not want to compound the problem.

Ok that parts is damge control...next step diagnosis.

2) Think about anything that could be different, even going back for some time as the affects may not have been instant. Make a list. One or more of your animals may have been an asyptomatic disease carrier for years quietly passing on the pathogen to the rest of your collection.

3) Figure out if your veterinarian has the experience or find another (2nd opinions are always good anyway). Here is where it gets tough. Are you ready to spend some money, maybe drive to a veterinarian in another town to figure out what is going on? We are potentially talking about blood tests, gastric lavage, culture and sensitivity, etc..........money will be spent.

What not to do! Some may suggest that you treat your snakes with medications such as flagyl (metronidizol), or antibiotics with out diagnosing the problem in a kind of "try this and see what happens" approach. At very least you may waste money at worst you may create bigger problem for your animals. Unless this is suggested by a compatant reptile veterinaian don't take this approach.

Your problems go well beyound the scope of this forum's ability however I hope that we have provided you with enough information to avoid futher contamination and some direction on where to look for help.

Good luck and keep us posted

Has there been any regurgitation?

Has your vet checked for cryptosporidium? Crypto usually doesn't show up on standard fecals because it is very small and may only be passed intermittently. I belive that in snakes a gastric lavage followed by acid fast staining of the slides is the best way to detect it. If you suspect crypto, use the ammonia for disinfecting as it is highly resistand to bleach and the nolvasan, chlorohexane type of disinfectants.

-Alice