Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I will be purchasing a large lizard this year and Im stuck on a B&W tegu, savannah, or dumerils. I want something 3.5 to 4.5 ft range so I don't want to get a black throat.I have been reading this forum for a while now so I have a good idea what is neede for each one. If anyone tells me its impossible to get a cb savannah then that just marks one off the list. I am leaning toward a tegu but i like the body of a monitor more. any suggestions.
thanks in advance

There are plenty of CB savannahs out there....you just gotta look for them...infact i have a baby CB savannah...his pic are on my website if you wanna check him out help yourself...
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Chris/Mike
L&R Reptiles

Eggs in an incubator, parent animals, gravid female, possibly laying eggs, eggs hatching in an incubator, and if you can ask for an egg shell. Breeding bosc monitors is a very very rare thing in this country, so dont believe the adds unless they can prove its for real. There are 16000 imported every year and sold wholesale from importers at under a dollar a piece, then sometimes a load of middle men get profits on them before they are sold. I can by a blackthroat for under $30 easily, but I wouldnt for a pet unless it came direct from the importer as a hatchling. Ive asked for proof from over 50 CB savannah adds in less than 2 years but noone can prove anything, and some get belligerent about it. Mark Bayless has responded to over 100 adds recently all over the internet and none are CB, all imports. One guy I asked showed me pics of Frank Retes house and his cages saying they were his and where he breeds savannahs, but the parents just died a week before I asked for proof of being CB. I wish people did breed them you would see a big price difference in the real deal and people who can stand behind their claims. Good luck.

You wouldnt believe how many dealers Ive confronted, and ended up empty handed. Most of em get pissed off that I dare ask for proof! Ive even gotten threatened for being persistant about getting a straight answer from one of these low-lifes. He actually said he would kick my a$$ if I didnt drop it and leave him alone. How professional is that?
The most commen response is that they "dont know where they were bred", and they bought them from some mystery source that they refuse to disclose.
Gotta luv it.

I just wanna get one thing straight...I have a CB baby savannah, but I never said that I am breeding them, i just wanna get that straight, I bought from a friend who breeds savs. I need to cut out my monitors so thats y im selling them. Just wanted to clear that up...sorry for any misunderstandings.
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Chris/Mike
L&R Reptiles

What is your friends name? Is there anyway he can come on here and show us a little proof that he has successfully bred them. Just a question...well good luck in all that you do.

His name is Derek, honestly there is no proof that he actually breeds them except for his word...i have seen his settups and his eggs i just dont know if they were sav eggs or not, either way they are very nice savs and very healthy as well. If you wanna see pics of them they are on my website. The baby sav was shedding when i took the pic of him.
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Chris/Mike
L&R Reptiles

The savannahs on your site, are they one of the "captive breds"? If so then why are they so cheap? Why are they so sickly looking? A dark colored Bosc usually means the animal is malnourished. Why would you let a CB animal get to that condition?
I agree with SHvar and Bengal? Show concrete evidence before making a boast like that.
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Christine :>~
A good friend will come bail you out fo jail, but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn that was fun!!".

First of all I need to sell my monitors becuase my GF is having a baby and i kinda need to make room, and if i put a sav up for $100 i dont think it will sell...Do You??? Yeah i didnt think so....and the sub-adult sav is not even close to being sickly looking so i have no idea what your looking at, and as for the smaller one he is in the middle of shedding actually its done now but during the picture he was...so u need to get your facts straight before u go attacking people like that.
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Chris/Mike
L&R Reptiles

Mike why don't you just come clean and tell us those are wild caught Savannah's? I mean come on man, how about you just cut with the charade. We know whats up, we're not dumb. I mean what are you trying to accomplish by lying? You should know that we are all seasoned monitor owners, we are hip to these little cons that these so called savannah breeders put on people. You know as good and well as I do that your monitor was not a captive bred. And if you didn't, then man, I'm sorry but you got took. Why do you think that thing was so dirt cheap when you bought it huh? Do you think its cheap to breed monitors or any reptile for that matter? Get with it man. You got took.

ok listen i was told they were CB thats all i got to go on...if they arent then your right, i got taken, but i wouldnt know if they are CB or not because i dont breed monitors and i never will, as for u being "on to me" whatever u guys think is fine with me, the only reason that im selling most of my monitors is because i have a baby coming and i really need the space, i cant keep larger lizards anymore, but i refuse to sell my water monitor cause he is my fav, but listen im not lookin to start fights with anyone, so if any has gotten pissed at me, IM SORRY, i was just relaying what i was told, and if the information is false then again im sorry, and in the future i wont say something is CB unless i know it is, thanks for reading this.
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Chris/Mike
L&R Reptiles

It wasn't just the color of the monitor on your site that made me think it was unhealthy. The size for one. I'm not talking length I'm talking girth. Body thickness, leg thickness, etc. From the picture that one posted on your site that juvie monitor should be very thick bodied. Plus you have it in a plastic container w/no subsrtate, water, or heat source. What am I or anyone supposed to think?
Sorry for sounding "attacking".
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Christine :>~
A good friend will come bail you out fo jail, but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn that was fun!!".

Show u pictures??? Y? So u can criticize them just like youve done with all my other pics...Theres no point to, your not worth my time if your be like this all the time....Like i said before im not trying to start fights with anyone...so this will be my last post on this forum because this is starting to get rediculous now....Where in that pic do u see a plastic container w/ no substrate and no heat source? Like i said in an earlier post "i have no idea what your looking at", because obviously your not looking at my website...anyway i have nothing to prove to anyone so if u dont like what i have then thats fine just stop making stupid comments when u obviously have no idea what your talking about...so like i said i would prefer that u keep your coments to yourself unless u know me and youve seen how i keep my lizards, then i would take in any comments that u have to say...until then dont go criticizing people just because u think u know everything about everything because believe me u dont...once again, thank you for time and im sorry if i wasted anyone elses time....i cant believe that one misunderstanding obviously on my part, turned into this...this is rediculous!!!!
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Chris/Mike
L&R Reptiles

Oh that's right the small monitor is sitting on what was that, a brick sidewalk? My mistake. I must have had you confused with someone else.
But from the picture you have on your site that animal looks thin. For the size that monitor appears to be it doesn't seem as bulky. That was all I said.
If you decide to leave that is not my problem. I said sorry for sounding as though I was attacking you. You are still being huffy about it and telling me off. Don't cry about it and talk to me like your 15 years old. I admit I made a mistake in your picture. Chill out it's not that big of a deal.

ive read this topic as it has gone along, and more then once it has been dead but was insisted to be kicked again. this is not an attack, and you have not been yet, but no matter what could be said or shown, i am positive it will not change anything. i can vouche that each one of mikes monitors just like all of our animals are taken care of with extreme care. as someone that has spent much time on a .com forum pictures arent always the best way to go about judging something, or especially someone. i and we do appreciate your apology for mistaken our picture, but it seems to me, and a few others i have spoken with theres no reason behind it then to find something to poke at. You have had no grounds for anything you have said and in most your RE you have done nothing but assume the worst. could we do even more for the care of our animals? i honestly do not someone that wishes they couldnt do more. But we do everything we can, that we are supposed to do to insure we keep and someday sell healthy quality animals. I know for a fact that every animal on our site is taken care of with the best care we can give with feedings and meeting all the requirments for those animals. and to lay it out nice and simple the only reasons those monitors are for sale is to make sure they get all the attention they do need with soon to start projects and mikes child on the way. we have both kept reptiles our entire lives, starting out with the simple garter snakes, anoles and frogs up thru the animals you see on your site, and many more. neither one of us have lost an animal due to lack of care or the condition we kept them in and that is something we are both proud of.

And no its not that we are leaving kingsnake. we post and help people and recieve emails every day from other areas of the forums and other online forums for advice and tips. there has even been posts in other rooms of people asking if anyone can help them with their monitors because of the people in here. you can say and feel anything you wish. its untrue and un fair of you to do so, but that just seems to be the kind of person you are. and im basing that on a majority of the posts you have made in this forum. and this is no way an attack on you or against you, just US deffending ourselves from someone that believes they are the be all end all that really should just not say anything until you know for sure. and thats much more then a forum tip.
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Chris/Mike
L&R Reptiles

Hello Chirs,
How long have you been posting on here? I'm only curious. I've been posting on here about two to three years now off and on. I think my first post was in, what 2001. I say exactly what is on my mind. I don't sugar coat or anything of that sort. You can accept my apology or not that is your (or Mikes) choice.
I'm sorry if anything I said offened you or Mike. I made a statement based on an observation. That happens a lot on here. Again I'm sorry for any offense.
I've owned snakes and small lizards since I was little also. I started working with moniors back in 1995. My first monitor was a Nile. Just to give you a little history.
The "end all be all" uh huh!!! Yeah right! Now look who is making a really poor observation. You've been watching my posts? For how long? There are very, very few people that I would consider to be the "end all be all" on here and not one of them is me. Show me a post where I called myself the "end all be all", or even a post where I called myself an expert or anthing close to it. Attitude, yes I have a lot of that. Too much for most people on here. I don't care what type of person that you think that I am. I am merely a name on a computer screen. After all this is supposed to be about monitors not a humans personality right?

ive been posting here since before we had to register, atleast 3 years, mostly under my own name before we decided to put a site up.

i dont really think i made that bad of an observation. this was a topic not intended to be anything but a simple question/comment. you quickly turned it into a fight based on a picture, and something you had no facts or knowledge about, instead of emailing, or even posting and asking nicly you decided what the case was and got very rude and out of hand. would asking or wanting to know more info be wrong, no not at all..but that wasnt the case. from your posts it was as if you already knew. and when that happens on a forum like this or in a face to face situation it puts us or whoever else in a position that no matter what we do or say its not good enough. but my observation was made reading a few of your posts, to us and others. a few emails telling us to ignore you and even a post in the bearded dragon forum asking for help because of the attitude in here, not saying your the reason, but i wouldnt doubt that you are a factor, and you cant dispute that based on what youve shown. i never said that you considered yourself to be the end all be all, but, and maybe i wrote it wrong, but you do give off that impression. having an attiude and feeling strong about something is fine. im much in the same. but i also realize that nothing gets solved because of it. your observation about our animals, those monitors in specific are wrong, they saw the vet when they were bought, clean bill, and have been kept under what many would consider the best conditions for a captive reptile. would we love to be able to do even more then we are, of course, but like i said before you find me a good herper that doesnt want to go that extra foot or try to get there as hard as they can and ill show you someone thats not that really good of a herper in the first place. i personally love monitors, they are amazing, i dont own any personally, but i research them as if i did, but i dont add my 2 cents to a lot of topics that i feel i may be able to help out, but i dont because i dont have that experience. you do, and you should help, and i hope you continue to do something. but you can have an attitude but a lot less people are going to listen to it and respect it after certain things like this.
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Chris/Mike
L&R Reptiles