Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Has anyone here seen one of these in person? If so do tell what they looked like etc. Anyone seen the babies? Or know what size they're getting? How about temperament?
Is there much of a difference between these and togians? WHen they first appeared I know FR felt they looked like a new species, but apparently not.
FR, if you read this, when you mean 'heat emmiter' in thread below, do you mean ceramic heat emitters?

If you want to know more about this species take a look at issue 1 of Biawak. There is an interesting article about their captive breeding. Take a look. http://varanidae.org/

Stephen

Cool. Thanks. I didn't know that existed.

I saw a large male in Daytona a couple years back. It was pretty impressive. Jet black and much larger than any togian I have seen. I didn't get to look at it too closely as it was at the back of the vendor's station. The aforementioned article in biawak is definitely worth reading.

Steve

This is the black water monitor your talking about, it differs from togian water monitor also black but has a white underside. Togians also start out with pattern that they loose with age. Komani (aka black dragons) start out black from the get go.

They also differ in size, all of the ones I have seen were w/c adults therefor nasty tempered.

Hi Jodi,
So to clarify, are the black dragons called "Komaini'? How big were the ones you saw? In the long run, sounds like there's not much difference between these and togians, except size? Correct?

Yes even though some wanted them to be a new spcies they are varanus Komaini. I have seen only pictures of them under 3 foot. Everyone I have seen in person has been 3 foot or larger and very nasty.

They are as different from Varanus togianus as they are from varanus cumingi, or varanus nuchalis etc..

first Komeini Monitors in 1983. They were described by the late Wirot Nutaphund and named after Dang[ his first name was Komein}. Dang I believe is now deceased as well but both were good friends of mine. They to me, looked and acted like typical V. salvator except they were black. I had one at least 7' long. TOM CRUTCHFIELD

Hi Mike, I do know what your refering to, as a different species.

My first experience with them was a very long time ago, in the mid sixties, there was a reptile park by where I lived and I worked there part time. They had two giant water monitors, a normal and one they called a "Komani"(sp). The komani, was jet black and very large, nearly seven feet and bulky.

Then Glades brought in a lot of them. Robroy, told me and others, they were going to be discribed as a different species and were from a different locality. Thats is all I know about them or knew about them. I only told you what I was told, as I do not have them or wanted to have them.

Other then that, the ones I have seen have been nasty as all get out. But who knows.

Quatzel and some fella in Texas, have captive bred them, again all, FROM WHAT I WAS TOLD.

If they were bred commonly, I would give them a go. Kinda cool looking. Cheers

Hi Mike

Port Credit had a couple babies back in the summer. 2 or 3 or them. They labelled them 'black water monitors'. They were small, about 12-15" TL back then. Jet black with a cream coloured belly.

Someone bought them so if they are still alive that means there are a few of them beating around in Canada.

--RT--
The Monitor Spot

Hey Ravi,
I would think those were togians, which I've seen them have before at the Port Credit Show. I would doubt they were the actual 'black dragons' as the 'dragons' are selling for 2 grand on KS by Ryan. What do you think?

Could very well be Togians. I'm not all up on my water monitor types these days. Either way, they were nice but just get too big for me.

P.S. Can you drop me a line when you get a chance.

Thanks

--RT--

I have only seen togians in photos but I saw the komaini in person when Glades had them 2yrs ago. I work with regular waters and I don't think they are only a subspecies. Unlike the photos of Togians I have seen in which the animals have some banding on the snout, the Komainis were pure black. The tail to body ratio seemed to be different than normal waters (aliitle longer tail with the Komaini) and Morphologically the just looked "different" (sorry...not very scientific I know.). I've heard they get really big and really mean which makes them intersting to me whether they are a water or not. Definitely a cool lizard.

Hey Ravi,
You'll need to forward your number. E-mail it to ocin2424@yahoo.com

PS. Remember those little croc monitors? You sould see how big they are now
Though still waaay too small for my liking!

hey Mike!

I'd love to import a few of them, they go for $600 to $800ea witch really means $2000 at the dealer lol.

you maight also be interested in the orange morph from near halamahera? they grow big and have nice temperaments, the black's are prety nervous in comparaison I am thold.

later

Let me know. I"d be in. thanks

I'm also interested in the orange morph!

Are you talking about the orange spot water monitors from jampea??

Have you seen any of the "fire" monitors yet??

Are these salvators your talking about? New subspecies? Any pics, info, etc?

Orange spots have been around awhile, along with togians, Komaini, nuchalis, cumingi, marmoratus, etc.. They just have not been recognized so as of right now they are simply known as jampea locality salvators, such as sulawesi has the spotted salvators. There are also honeycomb salvators. There are alot of other locality types that have not hit the market or atleast have done so few and far between.

IMO they should branch off from salvators as a sub species, but it seems sub species is not used often anymore, instead everything is a new.

To some this subject of locality variants is new. We have grown to only know what has been shown to us. Now many variations of the same have been coming in from indo. and africa. I am sure that those who have been to aussie already seen and knew of these differences.

the "black dragons" arent the same as the komani types that used to come in and sometimes still come, and are different than the togians too.

These in general get larger (girth and length) and have some different scalation.

I was offered these a few years ago before they were here in the states, but didnt see any large monitor selling well and didnt take the chance on housing a lot of huge mean monitors.

These are cool, and some like quetzal produced some that are very cool. much different as babies than togians.

I dnt think the exact locale will be known to be honest. The guy who exported them isnt going to give that up!

"the "black dragons" arent the same as the komani types that used to come in and sometimes still come, and are different than the togians too."

Where did you learn that it was proven they were different? As far as I know nothing ever came of the supposed study to prove them as such.

The ones that Quetzal produced to my knowledge are Komaini, there are even write ups about it naming them as such.

I do agree they are not the same as togians thats pretty obvious to see. But I have seen nothing to make me think they are any different then the Komaini types that come in and have come in.