Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey,

Just wanted to let you guys know how everything is going... Well for starters I got another fecal checked and it came back negative.... No parasites or bacteria found, which is the way it should be when it comes to animals produced by my Parasite free stock... Very, Very discouraging to say the least.... I'd believe that if the geckos were doing as good as they were before all this started to happen. I dont know what to do, I've tried Flagyl and Panacur and thus far I've noticed no improvement.... I actually lost my first baby today to this mysterious illness (parasite??? Not so sure anymore). Feel like I'm running out of options now. I'm going to have them checked out by another Vet here in Denver later on this week (Tuesday)... I'm going to see Dr. Fitzgerald at alameda east (Emergency Vets on Animal Planet) to see if he can figure out whats happening.... Heres the really strange thing though, my buddy who manages a Reptile Shop here in denver has run into several Geckos that have fallen victim to the very illness I've been treating my animals for. Each of these geckos came from different sources, and different breeders... He explain it to the "T", its almost like the geckos have come incontact with an "Aids" like virus, or condition... Hes had customers bringing back 3 - 4 year old lizards, that have been on their own for all this time that have recently come down with the same symptoms that mine have been exhibiting (regurgitation, vomiting liquid, diarreah, and anorexia), and he's had no luck in rehabilitating them, even with Vet help... So guess will see what Fitzgerald has to say, and hopefully it'll be more then the last two... Anywho, thanks for letting me vent...

Laters,
Richie

So it's something spread by feeders?
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Lovin' would be easy if your colors were like my dreams...

Thats exactly what I thought at first. I mean, my geckos started acting up right after I recieved my shipment of crickets. At first I was told that it was probably pin or round worms, since crix are known carriers for both of them. If such were the case, then the Panacur would have worked for both of them. Well, to say the least... It didn't. Soooo they thought maybe my geckos had come incontact with somekind of protozoa, or maybe they had excessive levels of intestinal flora (trichomonas), but the Flagyl didnt help either... As far as the feeders, well I know for a fact that I got my feeders from a different place then both reptile shops, and my local Petco's suppliers... So, who knows, all I know is that this thing is nasty, and once you get ahold of it, its very, very hard if not impossible to get rid of... Not trying to freak anyone out either, I just wanted to let you all know what I found out... Another thing that kinda made me curious was the fact that my buddy (the same man thats tried saving these animals before) actually stated something that made a little bit of sense... He thought that maybe all these years of line breeding (sibling X sibling, or parent X sibling) maybe catching up to the leopard gecko as a species (lowering immune systems etc)... Now, this isn't a fact, but after all I've been going through lately, well nothing seems to hard to believe in my eyes... I think even the almighty leopard gecko can have its breakdowns when too many of the same blood lines are crossed one too many times... ??? Maybe a scenario to ponder...

Bye,
Richie

That definitely is something to think about. I think it's worth taking to the experts though. I've already asked one of my former biology professors about parasites going from cricket to herp, and he was going to ask someone else in the department and get back to me.
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Lovin' would be easy if your colors were like my dreams...

I don't know if this has any bearing or not on this topic but not too long ago I read an article about one species crickets over in Britian coming down with a strange disease that only a few exhibited symptoms for...The rest were asymptomatic. They weren't sure if any of them had made it over to the states or not..but they did find that reptiles who ate them came down with some kind of disease that hadn't been identified yet... Comprised of a steady weight loss and loose stools and refusal to eat in some species of reptile. Now I'm not sure if this would have anything to do with it but then again it could. I haven't heard much more than that one this.. and they think it was a virus of some sort..

Hmmm, weight loss, loose stools and refusal to eat. Well that's very, very similar to whats going on here... Almost nails it too the "T"... Maybe someone will have a little more info on this subject. I for one would be very, very interested in hearing whats going on.... Thanks for the insight Lucien.

Richie

you mentioned regurgitaion... my leo had a problem with that a while back, and I found that by feeding him less at a time, but more frequently, he didn't puke it up. But it doesn't sound as bad as what you are discribing. Where are you getting your crix from? If it IS spread through feeders, I sure as hell don't want my animals getting it!!! I sure hope Fitzpatrick can figure it out... on a completly different note, that is my favorite show, and he is my favorite Dr., infact, probably the closest thing I have to an idol. Hahaha. Well, goodluck, and PLEASE keep us posted!!! We are ALL wishing you the best.
~Angela
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1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
0.1.0 Super Hypo-Tangerine Carrot tail
0.1.1 Whites Tree Frogs
1.0.0 Huge Black Cat
0.1.0 Cocker Spaniel
0.1.0 Brittany
0.0.1 Brother

Hi,

Thanks very, very much... My crix came from Flukers of all places... That was the first time I've used them as a distributor and it will be the last.... I'm not being judgemental, but all this started happening after I got the crix. I know its not how I keep my animals, they are all very, very clean and well cared for.... So it must've come from the crix.... I'll keep you all posted as soon as I hear anything else...

Richie

I wonder.. Flukers put up Reptile Republic and the contests to give out Free beardies to the people who posted the most on their boards. However.. the beardies were ill when people recieved them with some kind of virus.... I can't remember which virus it was..but it had some of the same symptoms as well....And they couldn't figure out where the beardies were getting it. Turns out it came from the South American sites where they were breeding the beardies... I wonder if Crickets could have been carriers of it and passed it on to the reptiles. Fluker's has a bad track record for healthy animals and/or feeders.

i have been having a problem similar to that with the weightloss in 3 of my geckos. 2 of them have had the problem for almost a month but i think it turned out to be a lack of calcium, b/c they are both getting fatter again and look much healthier. but the third one is about 1 1/2 weeks into it and im increasing her calcium but i wont know for about a week if she is getting any better but the other two seem fine now that they are getting every mealie calcium covered.

Have you had several acid fast gram stains done to check for crypto? Crypto can be extremely difficult to diagnose, except post mortem. Be sure to get a necropsy if one dies, those symptoms sound like they could be crypto.

Are you 100% sure it isn't bacterial? Maybe talk to your vet, isolate on animal, and treat with a broad-spectrum antibiotic to see if there is improvement? Sounds like it could be bacterial as well. If your leos are heading downhill and you have no other course of action, it may be worthwhile to give antibiotics a shot.

I hope it is not sme new nasty gecko virus, that would be bad. Good luck to you and your animals, please keep us posted.

Hi,

I wrote down a whole list of things I wanted them to check for the 2nd time I had my fecals done.... I was told that they checked for crypto and that it came back negative. As far as the stains, I really dont know if thats the way they checked but I definitely ask about that. I was thinking of crypto myself as well, crypto isn't air born is it? I mean in order for one gecko to become infected, it has to either come incontact with the diagnosed reptile or something that has come from the sick animals cage, correct? I really dont see, or believe that this is the way the illness has spread through my animals... Its not all of my animals but a large quantity of my hatchlings have been nailed with it, as well as my Breeding group of patternless animals who are housed on the otherside of the room. Everytime I do anything with any of my geckos I use a pair of latex gloves, and switch over to a new pair after each tub.... The only thing that any of my animals have ever shared were the crickets.... Thats why I thought "Ah ha, its gotta be the feeders", but I seem to have been proven wrong... And if it did come from the feeders, then its a type of parasite or bacteria that is almost if not harder to diagnose and treat then crypto is. And again, these are the signs that I've noticed in all my sick animals.

Note (these signs are also common with all other parasites, so dont jump the gun if they have or are happening to you)....

1. Gradual decline in health, and apparent weight loss, and tail shrinkage...

2. Loss of appetite, and sudden appearence of watery or mucus laden stools.... Grayish green at first, then the stools turn to a very DARK, DARK brown or tan (carmelish) color... Almost red as the animal starts to decline even faster.... When these darker stools dry they are almost a tar-like black color... They also have a very very distinctive vinegar like smell to them.

3. Regurgitation and or the vomitting of a tanish colored fluid. I've seen this in two of my lizards (the vet said it was due to the lack of food to regurgitate).

4. Smaller babies tend to fade much faster then larger semi established hatchlings (this is too be expected)... So far I've lost one animal to this "BUG" and unless things get better I fear that it'll repeat the process.....

There you go these are my symptoms so if you have anything related that isn't cured by Panacur, Flagyl or albon then I'd get a vet check up just to be safe....

Just to let you all know,
Richie

I don't know much about crypto in leos but I know a little about it in people. First of all it is contagous mainly when spread through fecal matter. fecally contaminated water is the main cause but it is also possible to be transferred by eating vegetables fertilized with manure of an animal with crypto and crickets are fed mainly plant matter.It has also evolved to the point where theoratically any food touched by a conatminated person carries crypto. I believe there have been a few major outbreaks when water was improperly filtered. Two questions: do you live near a body of water and do you have well water. Relatively little filtering is done on well water because the ground naturally filters it but if you pull water from a well near an open body of water some could get through.It is also possible that public water is contaminated as well because crypto seems to be very hardy. Crypto settles in the small intestine and then removes water causing diarrhea.

So if my mom does gardening with cow manure for fertilizer, she could be carrying crypto on her hands? And if she cooks my dinner, I could be eating crypto? And then I could pass it onto my leos when I feed them by hand? Ohh.. scary. *shudder*
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Lovin' would be easy if your colors were like my dreams...

I guess so but is it the same type of crypto? I think there are actually two types of crypto in humans. I read somewhere that it is actually one of the leading causes of diarrhea in humans but unless the person has some other sonditions such as HIV it can usually be flushed out with normal water consumption.

I am going to stop using crickets as feeders. The more I read on the forum about parasites and stuff, the more freaked out I become. I have just started raising mealworms at home, and I think I will stick with them. I feed them a very high quality diet the whole time, and I never refrigerate them. I have heard that Ron Tremper feeds only mealworms, and it looks like he gets good results. I am sorry to hear about your geckos, and I hope you turn the situation around real soon. Good luck!
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1.0 leopard gecko- adult
1.0 bubblegum snow corn snake- adult
0.1 creamsicle corn snake- adult

Most medium to large breeders do feed mealworms almost if not exclusively because if you have several hundred or a thousand geckos or so you could be going through like 10,000 crickets a feeding and I know I have trouble dealing with twenty or thirty crickets at a time but then again maybe thats just me.

Thanks

Richie

Where do you get your crickets?
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

N/P