Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, the start of the story is, I bought two huge adult Black Blood pythons, a black headed male and a chrome headed female. Unfortunately the male met with an accident before he was shipped out, and had to be put down. I was told he was breeding with the chrome headed female before he had to be put down and that she might be gravid.

Unfortunately, my other male black blood doesn't seem to know what to do, and not wanting to end up with a snake full of slugs, I put my 4 year old male VPI het. ultrabreight in with her for now.

This is what I found last night:

Sorry for the filthy cage, I didn't want to disturb them.

This should be an interesting mix My male is a visual ultrabreight het from VPI, I lose the female last year and her clutch. I'm not sure how many of these I will even release, because of the ultrabreight potential!
-----
http://www.lowergroundreptiles.net/

Sorry to hear about the losses. Hopefully your luck will change.
Personally, I would have rather had slugs instead of hybrids.
Nick

>>Sorry to hear about the losses. Hopefully your luck will change.
>>Personally, I would have rather had slugs instead of hybrids.
>>Nick

I have one CB 06 female Borneo x Black blood, and she's pretty nice looking. Definitely has characteristics of both species.

Slugs can sometimes be bad for the female. They take up calcium and nutrients. I have one female hognose who dropped 10 slugs this year and she still hasn't recovered completely. So yes, I would rather have hybrids than a sick snake. More than likely the male black blood already fertilized her anyway.
-----
http://www.lowergroundreptiles.net/

Unfortunately, I agree that hybrids are not for me. I think they are a waste of time and dangerous as it applies to the purety of the species.

Sorry about your other animals.
-----
================================
Support your local herp society
www.chicagoherp.org

Sorry for the loss, but I don't agree with your solution.
why would you assume you'll end up with slugs if you didn't breed to another snake?

What are you going to do if she produces offspring? If some look like curtis, some like breits, how are you going to know if they are even hybrids or not or who fathered them? Even if you had some nice, pure curtis fathered by the original snake, you can't sell them like that because you won't know if they are pure or just happen to look pure. Bad, bad idea in my opinion...

>>Sorry for the loss, but I don't agree with your solution.
>>why would you assume you'll end up with slugs if you didn't breed to another snake?
>>
>>What are you going to do if she produces offspring? If some look like curtis, some like breits, how are you going to know if they are even hybrids or not or who fathered them? Even if you had some nice, pure curtis fathered by the original snake, you can't sell them like that because you won't know if they are pure or just happen to look pure. Bad, bad idea in my opinion...

Then I guess it's a bad idea to breed boa morphs then...
-----
http://www.lowergroundreptiles.net/

It would be a bad idea to mix two different boa localities such as a mexican and a columbian, but morphs are of the same locality so the situation is completely different. The difference in the situation is because an ultra breit is from a completely different area from a black blood and is a different subspecies. A black blood is not merely a morph such as albino or matrix. Its like mixing a sumatran with a malaysian - they are different subspecies with different characteristics.
-----
1.0 borneo short tailed python
0.1 ball python
0.1 corn snake
0.1 rosy boa
1.0 bearded dragon
1.0 leopard gecko
0.0.1 yellow ackie
1.0 greater earless lizard

0.1 quaker parrot
1.0 fischers lovebird

Look at some of the Nicaraguan x Colombian morphs out there... hell, even I have some Costa Rican x Mexican boas someone put out earlier this year.

People also mix carpet pythons from different areas. IJ Jaguars when Jaguar is a Coastal morph. Diamond x Jungle, Diamond x Coastal. Or how about Carpondros? I don't see any of you flaming them...

An ultra breit is a morph. Mine was produced by VPI, he is a visual het. I'm attempting to see what the ultra breight gene brings out in the black blood pythons. BTW Sumatran reds and Malayasian reds are mixed all the time, as there's no special difference between the two. Bangkas are slightly different, but even mainland locale reds look like Bangkas now and then.

>>It would be a bad idea to mix two different boa localities such as a mexican and a columbian, but morphs are of the same locality so the situation is completely different. The difference in the situation is because an ultra breit is from a completely different area from a black blood and is a different subspecies. A black blood is not merely a morph such as albino or matrix. Its like mixing a sumatran with a malaysian - they are different subspecies with different characteristics.
>>-----
>>1.0 borneo short tailed python
>>0.1 ball python
>>0.1 corn snake
>>0.1 rosy boa
>>1.0 bearded dragon
>>1.0 leopard gecko
>>0.0.1 yellow ackie
>>1.0 greater earless lizard
>>
>>0.1 quaker parrot
>>1.0 fischers lovebird
-----
http://www.lowergroundreptiles.net/

I don't know that you're necessarily getting flamed but as you can see integrades between bloods and ST's definitely don't go over nearly as well as with the boas, carpets etc. that you referred to. You could put a pic of a blood x ball or blood x retic breeding up and I think you'd get a much more positive response than pics of integrade breedings. People like their bloods to be bloods, blacks to be blacks, and breits to be breits. In fact I'd wager that there are people who've read this thread that will avoid buying breits or curtus from you next year because they may possibly be from this pairing. I'm certainly not trying to flame you... it's just something to consider.

>>An ultra breit is a morph. Mine was produced by VPI, he is a visual het. I'm attempting to see what the ultra breight gene brings out in the black blood pythons. BTW Sumatran reds and Malayasian reds are mixed all the time, as there's no special difference between the two. Bangkas are slightly different, but even mainland locale reds look like Bangkas now and then.

Yes, it's a morph of Python breitensteini (Borneo Short Tail Python), not Python curtis. Malaysian, Sumatran and Bangka reds are all Python brongersmai, so it's not the different localities, but the different species (or subspecies if you still prefer) that people have a problem with mixing. Maybe they don't complain about carpondros or super balls if they are obviously a hybrid. These offspring you're producing may or may not look like hybrids, and more confusing, may or may not even be hybrids depending on which male passes his genes.

I think everyone has there opinion, There are pros and cons to both. Are you the same Lower Ground that got the male Blood at Hillsboro earlier this year? I hope he turned out alright. I know that what he was exihibiting could be normal, I already had a pet proublem child. Anyways, I hope everything turned out well for him, Best.

n/p

While I'm not a fan of integrades/hybrids, if you 'bill' them as such, I'm sure you won't get much grief, if any. Potential buyers may simply make up their mind based on that fact. I'm happy to see someone actually being HONEST about what they're doing! Post pics of the babies if they produce eggs and hatch. Maybe they will be interesting looking.

Matt
p.s. - Wanna know where the 'first' albino Borneos are going to come from?!?!? I'm sure we're MUCH closer than you think... and I'm pretty certain we all know what 'type' they will be... I'm 'positive' on this one!

p.s.s. - No, I'm not involved at all with that...

I heard about what I believe your talking about too......kinda shady if you ask me. People would pay top dollar for a "REAL" albino Borneo. But when you are making intergrades.....hmmmmm..is it realy an albino "Borneo" at that point?? Any how, I guess we'll just have to wait and see how that plays out, "HONESTLY",(or the lack there of)it should be interesting.

Suppose someone buys the baby snakes, knowing full well what the deal with the parents is. And then said person backbreeds and sells those babies as full-blooded blacks or Borneos. I have a pretty good feeling that's what's going to happen in this case.

Hey Ja'SIN'!

>>I heard about what I believe your talking about too......kinda shady if you ask me.

Yep... Mark my words...

>>People would pay top dollar for a "REAL" albino Borneo.

I would!

>>But when you are making intergrades.....hmmmmm..is it realy an albino "Borneo" at that point?? Any how, I guess we'll just have to wait and see how that plays out, "HONESTLY",(or the lack there of)it should be interesting.

Jasin, I have NO doubt it can and will be done sooner than later. Now, without a legit 'founding' adult it would be an interesting explanation how it all 'came to be', but you never know. Time will tell... If someone is honest about it and the snakes are KILLER? IS there any harm?!?! Again, I'm not into that thing, but these are becoming 'designer' animals in certain ways.

Sorry, folks, not trying to start a 'war' of any sort. Just rambling as usual. I have been rambling on since Friday night in Daytona this year. Hehehehe...

Hope all is well up your way, Jasin! Stay warm.

Matt

Nothing wrong with ramblin' when it gets down to the nitty gritty.

You know that little white speck on top of chicken s#!t? Why, that's chicken s#!t, too!

As individuals we know what we want & what we don't want. Disclosure is a fine thing, but don't dictate to me what I want & treat me like a mushroom. You know?

Just my $2.00...includes fuel surcharge.

K~

-----
Bloodpythons.com - Whats YOUR Blood Type?

>>As individuals we know what we want & what we don't want. Disclosure is a fine thing, but don't dictate to me what I want & treat me like a mushroom. You know?

I hear ya! I love mushrooms on my pizza... mmm... pizza...

My momma always said life is like a Box of Mushrooms.

>>Just my $2.00...includes fuel surcharge.

Funny thing is people NOW drive faster on the Interstate than I've ever seen before. Guess they all like paying that surcharge!

Wow... I just de-railed everything with this post!

M
p.s. - Hope ya'll are staying warm up in the north. We can't seem to cool off... snakes are confuddled!?!

Wistfully remembers...

Pepperoni & Pineapple is where it's AT!!! Well done, so the pepperoni is crispy & the pineapple caramelizes a bit. Mmmmmmm!!!

Can you tell I miss carbs????

It's cold here!!!!! Trade you ANY day!

K~
-----
Bloodpythons.com - Whats YOUR Blood Type?

>>Pepperoni & Pineapple is where it's AT!!! Well done, so the pepperoni is crispy & the pineapple caramelizes a bit. Mmmmmmm!!!

GOOD grief... you AND my wife! Ugh... I don't know how she eats that, also. Pineapple on pizza?!?! I still can't believe it... Hehehehe...

>>Can you tell I miss carbs????

I can hear the craving from here! I need to cut WAY back on carbs. I'm bulking up a little TOO much for the winter lately.

>>It's cold here!!!!! Trade you ANY day!

I could use it! Snakes are thinkin' it's still summer. Hope it rains someday soon also... right Jordan? Got any drinking water left up your way??? Things are getting bad here... REALLY bad.

Matt

Methinks you should not question the judgment of a gal who's willing to put up with you & your critters, regardless of her preference for pizza toppings.

Food for thought.

K~

>>>>Pepperoni & Pineapple is where it's AT!!! Well done, so the pepperoni is crispy & the pineapple caramelizes a bit. Mmmmmmm!!!
>>
>>GOOD grief... you AND my wife! Ugh... I don't know how she eats that, also. Pineapple on pizza?!?! I still can't believe it... Hehehehe...
>>
>>>>Can you tell I miss carbs????
>>
>>I can hear the craving from here! I need to cut WAY back on carbs. I'm bulking up a little TOO much for the winter lately.
>>
>>>>It's cold here!!!!! Trade you ANY day!
>>
>>I could use it! Snakes are thinkin' it's still summer. Hope it rains someday soon also... right Jordan? Got any drinking water left up your way??? Things are getting bad here... REALLY bad.
>>
>>Matt

-----
Bloodpythons.com - Whats YOUR Blood Type?

I could not agree more! You win. I'll let my wife know how happy I am when she orders pineapple on pizza for now on. I'll let her know you set me straight!

M

>>Methinks you should not question the judgment of a gal who's willing to put up with you & your critters, regardless of her preference for pizza toppings.
>>
>>Food for thought.
>>
>>K~
>>
>>
>>>>>>Pepperoni & Pineapple is where it's AT!!! Well done, so the pepperoni is crispy & the pineapple caramelizes a bit. Mmmmmmm!!!
>>>>
>>>>GOOD grief... you AND my wife! Ugh... I don't know how she eats that, also. Pineapple on pizza?!?! I still can't believe it... Hehehehe...
>>>>
>>>>>>Can you tell I miss carbs????
>>>>
>>>>I can hear the craving from here! I need to cut WAY back on carbs. I'm bulking up a little TOO much for the winter lately.
>>>>
>>>>>>It's cold here!!!!! Trade you ANY day!
>>>>
>>>>I could use it! Snakes are thinkin' it's still summer. Hope it rains someday soon also... right Jordan? Got any drinking water left up your way??? Things are getting bad here... REALLY bad.
>>>>
>>>>Matt
>>
>>
>>-----
>>Bloodpythons.com - Whats YOUR Blood Type?

You are SUCH an intelligent fellow! She's a lucky gal.

K~
-----
Bloodpythons.com - Whats YOUR Blood Type?

For the purest, hybrids are taboo. I know if I attained what I thought was a pure animal from a breeder and later found out it was a hybrid, I would destroy that person's reputation on the facts. I do not tolerate dishonesty in my personal or professional life.

This is why hybrids can be so dangerous. Don't get me wrong, some are pretty cool looking but the negatives outweigh the benefits at this stage.

...Alright Rich, step awayyyyy from the soap box.....
-----
================================
Support your local herp society
www.chicagoherp.org