Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey guys,
We got my girlfriend's sister a hatchling albino san diego gopher snake at the tinley park show in chicago a couple months ago (mid-october). Everything was going well up until 3 weeks ago, when she started regurging. Now, she made the mistake of continuing to feed her twice after she regurged, and she regurged the other two meals as well. We advised her to wait for a week and a half and then attempt to feed a pinky head to the snake. She has now tried to feed the snake twice, and it won't take it. She will be leaving the snake in her deli cup with the pink over night. We had her boost the temps up a little bit on the warm end (87F). She's in one of those plastic shoe boxes and is heated with an UTH. She's got multiple hides and is on paper towel. I also advised her to change the water a couple times daily so that the snake could stay well hydrated.
She will be scheduling the snake to go into the vet tomorrow. Although I can't see the snake, she says that it looks skinny, which is the thing that really has me worried. Does anyone have any advice that we could pass along to her? Pits aren't really my area of expertise, and we've only had a few regurge cases that we fixed by waiting and feeding small meals after the first time, so I don't really know what to do in this situation.
Thanks in advance!
-----
-Jaime Palma
Mad-City Constrictors

When ever a snake regurges I would wait a MINIMUM of 2 weeks before feeding again. In this case I would wait at least 3 weeks before offering a small meal. After multiple regurges I would definatly be very worried. If the snake had already eaten several times before it's first regurge I would imagine it should have some body weight in reserve. If it died any time soon it should not be from starvation. I would definatly wait at lease 3 weeks before offering a very small meal and if it held it down take it very slow for a while after that. If she has a vet visit scheduled that's good and she should keep it. There is a thing or two that can be given to help calm it's stomach but I would have a vet give it unless exprienced with that sort of thing. Good luck. Randy Whittington

I'd also leave the thing alone, and give it some privacy. I don't think you need to be changing the water several times a day.

The snake is probably already stressed out enough, and doesn't need any more to add to it...

//Todd

Hey guys,
She's been into the vet, and we've gotten the thumbs up to just wait it out and try to feed again in awhile. Hopefully that's all that it will take.
Also, my friend told me that the vet gave the snake some pre-emptive deworming medication, and said that it would help her appetite. Now, I have seen that in dragons the de-worming can reduce helpful bacteria in the digestive system and actually reduce their appetite. Is this something that we should worry about with the snake? It just seemed strange to me, but I wasn't at the vet with her, so... Thanks!
-----
-Jaime Palma
Mad-City Constrictors

I think that maybe, if the snake was kept at too high of a temp, that it could be a big possibility that is the reason. You said the hot side was 87? Is the whole cage 87?

Just be careful on high temps with pits. My first San Diego did not fare well and did the same thing as yours cause I had the heat cranking way higher than it should have been. I personally keep all my pits at 78-80.

Just a thought.
-----
Genesis 1:1

Sounds like the first problem is snake is being kept WAY too warm. I can't imagine any of mine keeping a meal down at 87 degrees! Tell her to keep it under 80 for at least a week and then feed. If she can't keep it under 80 then a gopher snake might not be the right snake for her. And it should have a few months to go before starving to death.

Is the gopher snake tame/calm when handled? Another problem might be privacy. Little gophers can be pretty high strung. I've found that young gophers can be finicky about food if they don't have complete privacy. Even opening the lid a few hours after feeding to see if the mouse is gone can cause the snake to panic and hurl. Now hatchling bulls on the other hand don't seem to be shy about eating at all. Keep us updated.

Hey guys,
Thank you for all of the advice. Just so you know, the gopher was originally being kept around 80 degrees and I advised her to bump it up since I'm a corn owner and that's what I would do if my corns weren't holding food down... So it was only mid-high eighties in there for a day or two.
Unfortunately, the snake passed two nights ago. The day that she passed, she got a clean bill of health from the vet. The regurging hadn't been going on long enough for her to have starved, so I think it could either be:
1) You shouldn't de-worm snakes that are that small and haven't kept down three meals straight (my friend told me that the vet did this and it made me uneasy)...
or
2) There was something internal going on.

Either way, I guess she's in a better place now, but we'll all miss her. Thank you again for all of your advice.
-----
-Jaime Palma
Mad-City Constrictors

Very sorry to hear- a real bummer.

Sometimes it just happens, and there is no scientific explanation.

Nice to hear that you guys did what you could to save the little guy!

//Todd

That stinks. They're not all supposed to make it anyway I guess.

Sorry to hear that it didn't make it. If it was still small enough to fit in a deli cup then 3 regurges, a lot of times, do not fair well regardless of vet help/advice. A good herp vet would have known this as well but most vets are your typical dog/cat doc's with no experience with reptiles or minimal experience at best. I would contact a local herp club or reptile rescue to find out who the best vet for herps in your area is.

You can also call Dr. Scott Stahl for a phone consultation. It costs maybe $20 but he is probably the best exotics vet you will find. Just do a key word or google search for him and he will pop up several times. I believe he is the Dr. that Ralph Davis and some of the other Ball breeders trust their high dollar morphs with even if they have to ship the snake to him.

The vet she took her to was recommended on one of the "herp vet search sites," and I've got a well-qualified vet that I take my little ones into in Madison... But yeah, him giving it a clean bill of health after hearing that it had regurged that many times maybe should have been a tip off to her. I regret that I couldn't be around to accompany her or that she had called me sooner, after it had regurged the first time... but such are the trials of being a first-time snake owner, I guess. She made an initial mistake or two and then did all that should could to correct it, with a devastating outcome. She is now hyper sensitive about her western hoggie (scouring the net for anything and everything she can find about them), and is looking at getting a BP for her next snake.

I'm very glad that I've never experienced anything like this with my own collection, but she's learned from the mistake she made and is actually a very responsible keeper aside from not knowing how long to wait after a regurge to feed. I trust that her hog and whatever other snake comes into her care will be extremely well cared for.

Thanks again, everyone, for all of the kind words and advice.
-----
-Jaime Palma
Mad-City Constrictors

Sorry to hear about your loss. I hope your experience w/ this gopher will not put you off from keeping Pits in the future.

reako45

Oh, most definitely not.
I'm looking forward to my first pit experience when I've got the room, and I'm sure my friend will eventually get back into them as well... she's just gotta have some healing time.
Cheers!
-----
-Jaime Palma
Mad-City Constrictors