Reptile & Amphibian Forums

with successful copulation?

"Snakes are my teachers, I am just a student!"

Scott D

Zero days, I normally do not hibernate any reptile and have GREAT, not just good, but great success with snakes, python, turtles, torts, all manner of lizards, and of course monitors.

I also do lots of field work and those dang wild snakes are not hibernating either. In fact, we have are best days in the winter. One site is with montane rattlesnakes at 6000ft elevation.

But what do I know? Cheers

Thanks Frank for the info. What do you know? A hell of a lot!

"Snakes are my teachers, I am just a student!"

Scott D

you breed Torts? thats awesome... someday, I'll have a place big enough to keep one... until then, I just dream... although I'm still fighting for the sardinian donkey, so the tortise might have to wait a while...
-----
~Maggie~

"Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious."
1.1 Cal Kings
1.0 Mali Uromastyx
1.0 Brooksi
0.1 Red Belly Piranha
1.0 Australian Shepherd

FR,
The last few years I have been leaving the heat strip on in a room that gets down to 40F. The snakes usually sit on the cool end anyway.

I have been feeding females (sparingly) during brumation because the heat is on low (maybe once or twice during the winter months).

Do you think turning off the heat tape will be just the same or turning it up to 85F where the snakes will want to eat all the time. DOES IT REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE?
-----
ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!

What I find with most colubrids is, they perfer a wide temperature choice. Winter and summer. In fact, the temps we take in nature reveal that most snakes sleep at hibernation temps. That is, in the 50 to 60F area.

With some snakes, they are holding ovum or embryos(over winter)(boas and rattlesnakes) They will seek hotter temps in the winter, so they gather in particular areas to EXTENT that ability for all or most of the winter. Yet the non-breeders of the same species, do not do this. They stay in cool temps and have not need to seek heat.

To that point, Female montane kings without question congregate in tight groups. This normally means they are doing so to fullfill a need. My bet is, to increase their ability to access heat.

Low elevation kings like getulus(mature females) also congregate in small areas during winter. Althought I have found that much harder to find as there habitat is more subterranean and does not need surface landmarks to identify.

Many of you may have heard of or seen Fla. king congregations. I heard of gatherings in the hundreds(in the old paines prairie) but I only saw small gatherings of 5 to 10 pairs in the Orange prairie area.

Anyway, the reason I do not use the terms hibernation or brumation, is those terms are not accurate to what the actual kings are doing. The reproductive part of the population, avoids inactivity at all costs. In many cases, they will move hundreds of yards and across rough terrain to find suitable areas to stay active as long as possible. Whereas the un-reproductive part of the population has not need to stay active.

Even when its so cold that surface activity is no longer possible, they are still active underground or in their shelters. They move about and participate in social behaviors such as mate selection or mate locating. Which cannot be called hibernation. Cheers

...it seems Florida kings aren't very active above ground. However, I've found plenty under cover during this time, and they will often be full with a recent meal. In the span of about 20 minutes, me and a friend caught 5 kings in a small field on a cold day in January. Most were under tin, and very warm. All had taken recent meals... large meals.

interesing thread, i am thinking of trying to breed my southern pines without cooling and keep feeding once a week and see if they'll breed.

is does brumation hurt?

There are clearly areas, like eaterns in New Jersey, or cal kings in Norcal, where temps are freezing and teh ground is frequently snow covered. At these times those snakes are clearly brumating/hibernating, whatever you want to call it.

So my question is that if the snakes have this wide range of capabilities from eating all winter, to fasting in a torpor for 5 months or more, is either scenario actually bad for them? Its nice to get a break from cage cleaning and feeding etc. And for those with large collections, heating costs and feed costs are definitely a factor. My biggest question is if brumatiing actually reduces fertility/fecundity. I havn't ever seen any evidence to show that.

My biggest question is if brumatiing actually reduces fertility/fecundity. I havn't ever seen any evidence to show that.

I think us seasoned breeders have had good and bad years for a number of reasons. It's trying to figure those things out that makes it so much fun. Well at least for me. Others just do the same dumb thing year after year and never learn a thing.
-----
ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!

"Even when its so cold that surface activity is no longer possible, they are still active underground or in their shelters. They move about and participate in social behaviors such as mate selection or mate locating."

Hi Frank. I am curious how you know or determined this. If they are not on the surface, how do you know what they are doing, especially socially?
-----
Rick Staub