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i have a juvenile roughneck monitor that's about 16" in TL. i'm looking at purchasing/building an enclosure for it very soon. any ideas of a material that would be good for the enclosure and what dimensions anybody would recommend?

i was thinking about going with a 4'x2'x2' cage, which for now would be adequate. but from what i've been reading, they typically only climb to hide or flee from predators. so they're not as arboreal as i thought, according to benett. anyways, anybody have suggestions?

They're very arborial, but in a cage that is quite meaningless. However, give them upper hides, and you will usually find them hidden there, as opposed to burrowed underground like other species.

First off, Take Daniels book and use it only for fun. As it has nothing to do with your monitor. Don't get me wrong, I really like Daniel and his books, but again, he and his books are very very weak when it comes to monitor behavior, captive or otherwise.

As biologist, we HAVE to make animals FIT a catagory or a explainable nitch. Unfortunately, as humans, we are VERY poor at that. For instance, take aboreal, As Mike said, it means little in your cage, unless you go hang your cage high up in a tree. Or In you live in New York City in a skyscraper and allow your monitor to see outside. If you keep your cage in your house, its NEVER going to be aboreal. EVER. Its just a cage. In fact in REALITY, all our cages actually represent a monitor STUCK in a small cave or tree hollow. It never is OUTSIDE. And sadly, monitors know this. But the people mostly do not. People somehow think if you decorate a HOLE(your cage) like some picture you saw, it becomes that. That could not be farther from the truth, your cage is still only a hole, a decorated hole(or cave). Remember, this is from the monitors prespective. If it cannot get out, it has to be a hole or cave, there is no sky or exit, they are stuck in a hole.

More on Daniel Bennetts(possible) miss-information. Is a lizard aboreal that runs up trees to escape predators, as many monitors do that? If They walk and feed on the ground then shelter and escape in trees, are they ground dwelling or aboreal?

Monitors are heat lovers. That is, actual high exposure is key to their lifes. In some forested areas, the only consistant heat(sun) exposure is in the upper canopy of trees. Yet that same species can and does use the ground or close to the ground in other areas, where there is plenty of heat(sun) exposure.

Lets take green iggies, lets take them, because I just saw this in nature. In costa rican rainforests, I saw them high up in trees, oh 150ft or more, up in trees, yet in other areas of Costa rica, I saw them walking on the ground. In Aruba(a desert island), they were very common in the cities and commonly used the ground and small buildings. Away from the cities, they used rock outcroppings and bushes. Baby iggies in all areas loved bushes at the edge of open areas. This example is a very good analogy to be used with monitors.

In all cases, these lizards use the enviornment, whether its up(aboreal) or down, (terestrial) to GAIN the needed support to live their lives. I mention this because this paragraph is the IMPORTANT part.

What Daniel Bennetts book FAILS at, is mentioning what is the important part. What is needed to support wild monitors, that is also needed(REQUIRED) to support all monitors, captive or otherwise. Its this information that is important to you, not whether a monitor is in a tree when the researcher or author is standing at the bottom(chased it up the tree)

Another example, in many tropical forested areas, the ground is Wet and most monitor species hate being wet(for long periods), so the only places they can find that allow them to be dry and hot, is UP in something. Off the dang wet ground. In wet areas, the only places that drains is up. In these places, they become aboreal by simple need. The need to find a dry place.

For instance, if you take a RUDI, its not build like true aboreal reptiles, its not long and thin, it does not have a long tail, thin body, long legs and toes that allows easy climbing and the ability to move from branch to branch. From its build, my guess is, as babies, they stay above the ground and as adults they use the ground a lot.

But then the reality is, As Mike mentioned, its not important in your cage. What is important is, what temps is any monitor seeking on the ground or in the trees? What type of hides does it required, not whether they're up or down, as thats not in your cage(your cage does not allow up or down), but wet or dry, or dirt or leave litter. Hot or cool? or the ability to get hot and cool, all while staying hidden. Its these conditions that are important and how they behaviorally use them. Not whether in Indo, a rudi is sitting on a branch 100ft up or on the ground. Your little fella is not in Indo. Period. Remember, in nature, up and down covers distances up to hundreds of feet, in your cage, your talking five or six feet. Five or six feet is not up in nature. Even true ground dwellers climb higher then that.

So what becomes important is not WHAT DANIEL SAYS OR ANYOTHER DANG BOOK. What is important is the information that allows your monitor to succeed,right where its at, at your house, in your cage

And that information is pretty much the same for any and all monitor species. They want the ability to choose from different temps(a temp range) and the ability to maintain proper hydration(a humidity range) they want the ability to feel secure(fit in a tight SAFE hiding place. And they want many of those. They want those in all the different temps and humidity choices.

Then lastly, they want to eat like a pig. Yes, they all want to grow up and pair up and make lots of babies. Thats what they want, captive or wild. They both want and seek to do the same things. They ALL want to achive their lifes goals(to recruit) and seek lifes main events.

The one thing different with captives is, they are not exposed to predators, at least non human predators. Don't ever forget, you are their main predator. Humans kill more monitors then any other predator. And they know it. Ok, thats a bit of an exaggeration, but we are a main predator.

So all I ask is for you and others, is to get real, I want you to understand that your cage is NOT nature, or will it ever represent nature. YOUR CAGE is only suppose to provide the basic needs of your monitor, then AS YOU LEARN, provide up to at least fullfilling its basic life events. To prosper, have good health, to grow, to achieve maturity, to pair up, to nest and produce offspring. That is their design, anything and everything else is open to debate.

Sorry for the rant, but its been awhile since I unloaded a decent rant. Again, nothing against authors of books that do not tell about what is actually needed to support varanid species LIVES. Captive or otherwise. And nothing against you. Cheers

Thanks Frank! I can always appreciate your rants.
And yes, it had been a while.

thank you very much FR! so what i gathered from this, is stop worrying about "arboreal" cages because no cage in a house can truly be "arboreal". instead, worry about proper temps, humidity, the animal being able to feel safe/secure, always with a full belly, and (from what i gather) cage dimensions should be as large as my pocket/space allows.

haha, all too simple. guess i was reading too much into things, again thanks for the information, Frank. it hasn't gone unappreciated and taken wholeheartedly

Yes, you did a much better job of expressing my thoughts, hahahahahaha you have got it.

But there are some other things that are very important. Like feel, each species of monitors has a perferred feel. Like a smooth rock surface, or crevice, Or a certain type of bark that is comfortable and useful(can get a grip on) Even to a point of a branch or limb that fits its own unique body size and condition.

The same or hides, some perfer hollow limbs, others rock crevices, other types of soil. These are not only species specific but specific to a certain individual. More importantly, your individual.

This is where I tell folks to read their monitor. But most do not know how to read! Its easy, watch it and if it picks something, give it more, if it does not use it, go back and give it less. If you work in small increments, no harm will be done and lots of good COULD occur.

Once you learn your animal, you can lead it anywhere you like. I can take monitors these folks call aboreal and have them burrow like crazy, or take a burrowing monitor and have it climb like crazy. Or I can offer the monitor, what it wants. It really is that simple. Yet, these people argue a monitors aboreal, and its hot spot is on top the cage. Hmmmmmmmmmmm Move the basking spot down and all of a sudden that aboreal monitor becomes terestrial.

Your right about cage size, in a nutshell, the larger the cage, the more fun you will have. Oh, and the monitor. When my monitors are having fun, so am I, so I think others should be happy when their monitors are doing well. But, again, on that I am guessing.

Again, all monitors prosper from about the same husbandry, with a very few alterations in cage furniture. Same temp range, same humidity range, etc. And in most cases, the same diet. Cheers

funny that you mention this, because my lizard prefers being in the water most of the time and prefers being warmed right next to the water dish most of the time.

i am looking into getting a cage that's 8'x3'x2' and the thought just occured to me to put a trough-like water supply in there. maybe with shallower parts for soaking, deeper parts for swimming, and a basking spot right next to it. an idea for one of the things to do with part of the cage.

thinking about it...this lizard seems more aquatic than arboreal. i guess i made the mistake of thinking inside the "box" too much.

Reading your monitor, Part 1, If your monitor soaks alot, any monitor species, its dehydrated. My bet is, you have screen somewhere(top) and you have a rather high wattage bulb thats heating up the basking area.

What that is really doing is heating lots of air and that causes the air to rapidly leave the cage, taking all moisture with it. (Beef jerky machine, the exact same principle)

Even water monitors can be dehydrated this way.

The cure, a much smaller bulb, much closer to the monitor, therefore heating less air. Also you can now eliminate most of the venting, to prevent the hot(now moist air) from leaving the cage. An adjustable vent is PERFECT, as then if you still use a large water bowl you can adjust it to not condensate in the cage. Cheers

yes actually it is a screen lid. i'm now thinking of lowering the wattage of the bulb, raising the basking spot closer to the bulb, and covering most of the lid with plexi-glass. next week i'm starting the project to build the cage.

i was thinking eight feet wide, three feet deep, and two feet (debatable) tall. with a two foot water trough on one side, with a side that's deep enough for swimming, and a side that's shallow enough for easy soaking. throughout the cage i was going to use a soil/leaf litter mixture as bedding, have basking sites on different levels (one(s) on the ground, one(s) on platforms/branches).

have multiple places for hiding, on the ground, up high, hot ones, cool ones, and everything inbetween. it will be enclosed with adjustable vents rather than with a screen top. trying to make it as comfortable for the monitor as possible. i'll have pictures of the cage when it's completed. i figured if i work all day every day on it, it should only take 2 or 3 days.

anyways, i'm sure this information isn't something you're too interested in. thank you for all the help and info FR, i greatly appreciate it and through doing my best to read my animal and take your advice, i hope to give my rudi a happy long life.

A six foot trough can be very difficult to clean when your monitor decides to defficate in it. My Savannah monitor mostly, if not always, defficates in his water tub, so I didn't use the biggest rubbermaind container I can fine. I did use a small kids plastic pool, but it took too long to get all the water out and clean the pool everyday, so I go with the smaller one, but big enough for him to completely sit in it and soak in the water. I know despite them coming from an arid environment, my Savannah loves to soak in the water for some reason. You can try to make a hole at the bottom of the trough and put a drain under the cage; this way all you have to do is unplugg the hole and drain your water and clean the trough.

the trough will be approximately 2 feet long, not leave 2 feet in the cage for bedding.

A little something, something, to think about. Savs, or rudis do not soak. If they soak, that is a direct sign they are dehydrated.

Monitors use water, or creeks or ponds, to thermoregulate, or hunt, but not to soak on a regular basis. Of course even in nature, a rare occurance happens that a monitor will soak(mites, dehydrated, etc) But ITs NOT suppose to be on a regular basis.

About crapping in the water, that is ALSO a sign of dehydration. Savs as with most monitor species, deficate in certain parts of the range and use it as a tool for idenification(so members of their own species can tell who lives where. This occurs in captivity as well. And its not in the water, unless they are dehydrated.

About your basking spot, do not move it up to the top, move the lite down in the cage. I commonly mount them under half logs, others use a lite fixture on a cord. Some use several, particularly for larger monitors like rudis.

What I was trying to explain in a previous post was, most/many people want to tell you a certain monitor is aboreal by placing the basking area up high, then saying SEE its aboreal because it will go up to the basking area. The problem is, so will a horned lizard, It indeed will climb if the only basking area is up high. If you place the basking area down low, you can without question enrich the whole cage to a higher degree(heat raises) they simply using a high basking area.

The best approach is having a large enough cage what will allow high and low and medium basking areas, basking areas, without losing the low end of the temp range.

Good luck,

yessir, what you explained is exactly what i plan on doing with the eight foot cage i am building on monday.

i changed the basking spot for my rudi, lowering the wattage and putting the light closer to the basking area to keep the temps correct. it's not soaking as much, but still is soaking a little bit. i thought a huge indication of this species being fairly aquatic is that when the stomachs of wild individuals were pumped, it included a lot of aquatic foods. my individual also seems to like aquatic food the best. it won't even touch rodents though. only fish and bugs.

A small thought for you, the most aquatic monitors in the world(semi-aquatic) are mertens monitors, they have the most actual adaptions from living in water. THEY EAT MICE. So do water monitors, so do mitchells, so do dumerils, and so do rudis.

A unique thing about varanids is, they all have a very wide range of food items. From the smallest monitors to the largest, they eat nearly anything digestable, and sometimes not.

So, my bet is, your conditions are limiting what your rudi feeds on. I also will bet you any amount of money, I can get your rudi to eagerly seek out mice or rats or birds and chase them over hill and dale. (dale? whats a dale?)

Did you argus monitors are semi aquatic(there is not truely aquatic monitor) In many areas, they live by streams and natuarlly feed on all manner of water creatures.

Of interest, argus(panoptes) hunt mostly the banks of bodies of water and mertens hunt IN the water.

We have spotted night snakes around my house, they are lizard feeders, oh except the ones that get into my mouse room and eat pinkies. Cheers

i also wanted to really thank you big time for all of your help, FR. sincerely, i appreciate it and my monitor will too!

i also wanted to ask, how do you feel about handling? do you believe a monitor can be handled regularly and be docile with humans and still be healthy and happy? or do you strongly recommend against handling any monitor as much as possible?