Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok, i bought a baby veiled chameleon not to long ago. and lately he seems a little odd. he has some little black dots on him ( i think that could just be cricket poop ) and 1 of his eyes in like always squinting, like its permanataly squinted and his mouth is always kinda weird. i know i should have a pic to show you but i lost the camara. its not MDS because o have a great uvb source withen 1 inch of the cage, i really dont want to loose this baby and i wamnt it to be as happy and healthy as possible what should i do and what could be wrong? ( and i dont know for sure if hes even been eating much or atall )

Cricket poop on the cham??? If crickets are crawling on your cham get them out of the cage! They are stressing him out and could be biting him. His eye could be damaged and infected. What do you mean his mouth is weird? Is the gumline swollen and red? If so he has an infection that needs vet treatment NOW. If the jaw itself is crooked or mis aligned that sure could be a sign of MBD. You don't just need a UVB light, but the RIGHT KIND of light that is less than 6 months old, plus the proper gutload and insect dust. What brand of light? What do you feed your crix? What brand of dusts, how often?

Chams close an eye for a lot of reasons including dehydration, infection, injury, vitamin deficiency, stress. We can't possibly diagnose him without a lot more specific information on your setup, watering, dusting and feeding schedules.

Ok the light stuff brand is R-Zilla this lighting stuff is all brand new not even a month old yet.he is in a 10 gallon cage wit ha dripper system, lots of twigs and 2 fake plants with outdoor carpet substrate. he is still very young just about 2 months.i purchased him from petco around 4 or 5 weask ago.he is normal size for his age with normal coloring besides some black spots/lumps i mentioned, could it be fro ma bad shed or wha tcould they be. the lighting fixture is directly on top of the cage so he gets the full uvb benefits and the ambient cage temp is 85 degrees. his left eye is always squenting and it worries me because he wasnt squenting it the firs tfew days i brought him home. his mouth is like uhh half way open like he cant/doesnt clsoe it all the way ( right side ) his lips on the right side petrude and make it so tha tside of his mouth is open. i do know he needs a screen cage and ill be investing in 1 soon but i dont think thats the problem at the moment. He is very active otu and abount and never hiding. he has bee neatign ive seen him eat a few crickets ( im feedign him the smallest size crickets available. and he often sleeps upside down on the top of his cage. I really need to know what is or could be wrogn with him because i dont want to loose this this little guy he is my first chameleon, even tho i am a experienced herp keeper with everything from blood pythons to beardeddragons. srry fro any spelling errors ( i typed this in a hurry )
Thank you

A picture would help so much! I don't know about that UVB bulb. Most bulbs on the market are not worth much at all. A ReptiSun 5.0 is a tried and true good quality bulb. What is the humidity level in the tank? Chams often start closing an eye if the air is too dry. With the lighting on such a small tank it could be drying out very quickly and slowly dehydrating him. Babies dehydrate really quickly. No lights on at night, right? Temps should drop about 10 degrees at night also.

With your description of his mouth a pic would really help. If the gum and lips on the right side are swollen (look for reddish spots or yellowish cheesy looking patches in his mouth), he has a serious infection that could spread to the bone. If the jaw itself is deformed, that is due to MBD. Again, what gutload and dusts are you using and how often? The little black spots could be fungus, old unshed skin patches, insect bites, or sores. I can't tell at all. The fact that he has started all this since you got him tells me there is something basically wrong with your husbandry.

Just in case you haven't seen this site, there is a lot of great info on raising veileds in earlier issues of the e-zine that may give you some ideas to follow up on.Go to www.chameleonnews.com

sorry for being difficult, yes i turn all lights off at night. the humidity i nthe cage stayes around 55 ive been trying to get ti to stay at 65 but its not going very well. i just use some random dust for the crickets. i took a pic but i lost my cord to connect it to my pc.I dont know whats wrong with my busbandry besides the fact that its a glass cage. ive fallowed just about every care sheet i could find. no its not mouth rot or anything its kinda like its deformed exept that it wasnt thsi way when i first got him. i i feed the crickets colard greens and carrots for 2 days before feedin them to the animals. i can "pet" the black spots off if i take him out and pet him. i na little while ill look for a pic on the net to match the problem im having etc.

Please be specific...what brand and what type (compact or tube) of UVB are you using? Does it have any glass or plastic on it or is there any glass or plastic between it and your chameleon?

What brands of supplements do you use and how often...please be specific. (Do you use calcium, vitamins calcium with D3?)

well he wouldnt of gotten mbd from the 4 weaks ive had him, 4 weaks isnt long enough. ive been trying to be specific. its a tube light and there is just a screen top beyween the light and the chameleon. i dont use any specific supplements i just use wha tever supplument i have around the house. the brand of ALL the light stuff for the chamelion is Zilla, how much more specific can i be? i figured my inguanas would be harder to keep than a veiled chameleon but aparently i was wrong.

Iguanas and chams (especially a baby) are so totally different in care I don't think you can compare the level of difficulty.

yes i know that, it was a metaphor either way what is wrong with my cham and wha tcan i do to fix it, i dont wanna loose her and ive told you just about everything i can

Without pictures, without the specifics (brands, age, how often you use them) on your dusts or gutloads I can only suggest you take it to a vet who can recognize MBD and mouth infections. The vet will ask you the same questions we have. The difference will be he/she can actually see the problems you described.

The problem we are having is that the specific BRANDS of dusts and gutloads make a difference because of their ingredients. If your cham's jaw is deforming since you've had him there IS something wrong with what you are feeding him or exposing him to. Sounds like the Zilla light isn't producing enough UVB in the right spectrum, or the dusts are either old, deficient, or not balanced correctly. You need BOTH vitamin and mineral dusts. Baby chams grow extremely fast, so deficiencies can very well show up in a month if he can't metabolize Vit D and calcium. You can correct this. I'd really suggest getting a ReptiSun 5.0 fluoresent tube bulb, getting him out in real unfiltered sunlight whenever the weather permits, add some fortified cereal grains (like Total) and orange chunks to your gutload (vit. C and the dietary calcium will help), get a decent calcium dust (ReptiCal or MinerAll are good), and a vitamin dust like Herptivite. He should be getting a light calcium dusting every day, vitamins once a week until he's about 8 months old.

It sounds like the black spots are bits of old shed. Just watch to see if any new ones keep forming.

As for the eye, I suspect your setup is too dry. 55% is pretty low for a baby cham. If you add a live potted plant instead of twigs and fake leaves it will provide a lot more surface for water retention and drinking, give him a hiding area, and help stabilize the humidity without drowning him in the small tank.

Frigidis, you say that you are using a R-Zilla UVB bulb. Is it possibly a Desert Series 50? If it is then I would recommend that you stop using it immediately. A recent study on these and some other newer flourescent bulbs advertized to emit high UVB levels have shown that they emit UVB in a dangerously low spectrum (under 280 nm which is actually UVC). These levels are even below that of solar radiation. This is believed to have lead to some newly reported cases of photo-kerato-conjunctivitis (PKC). Typical symptoms of PKC include a refusal of the animal to open the eyes, lethargy and inappetance. More severely affected animals developed swollen eyelids, and a small number developed lesions resembling burns and exfoliation of the skin of the eyelids. This sounds quite close to the symptoms you reported in your cham.

Here is a link to more detailed info about PKC and the bulbs thought to cause it:

I would stop using that bulb right now and get a proper one with the UVB spectrum more closely resembling solar UVB (305 - 315 nm should work). I found that Mega-Ray mercury vapor bulbs are great, which are available online from reptileuv.com. If weather permits, take him outside for some real sunlight, you can't beat that. I would make a vet appointment ASAP. Good luck to you and your baby cham.

Oops, that link didn't show up.

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor.htm