Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know some boas are kept in no more than a sweater box (well ok, BIG sweater boxes) and a lot of care sheets say 1 ½ the length of the snake minimum for the length x 24”H x36”D. I go to a reptile park and they have 1 or 2 in something the size of a small bedroom. Taking the human factor out of it, what is the best size for the snake? I know some say they don’t thrive in large enclosures because of a feeling of insecurity, but is that because there is not enough cover and hides? I have heard that in the wild, some snakes don’t move from a good ambush location for months (if food water and a good hide are available). I’ve kept snakes for a very long time and have always wondered what was ideal. I know there are all sorts of opinions on this subject and I know it’s impractical for some of you that have 25-100 boas to even entertain the thought of sizable enclosures, but I’m just asking for argument sake. I know that snakes can exist in very small environments (so can humans, just look at the state pen), but what is the happy size?

So, if space and money (within reason) was not a limiting factor, how big would you make a display style enclosure?

Just a thought.

One Square Foot for Every(1)Linear Foot of Animal as a rule.
Everything after that is excessive as far as the snake is concerned.
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TnK

It seems all over the board, I found care sheets raining for 2x3x4 to 8x3x4, some saying 6’ is the shortest you want to go with. I found one that actually said 1.5x the length! I was looking at ARS racks and their large boa tub was 52”x 33.5” that would seem to follow your formula if the snake was 12’. I don’t know if I agree with the statement “Everything after that is excessive as far as the snake is concerned”, but I would call it a good minimum size. I know that’s the size that most of the successful breeders use, and breeding is always a good sign of well being, so maybe that’s enough. I don’t know, the care sheets state otherwise. Breeders tend not to write care sheets I guess. I’m still curious what others will chime in with.
My question was what size would you build a display enclosure, racks are fine but some of us would like to display a member or two in our collection.
-Thanks

Off the top of my head, I'd say -- take the length of your snake, allow the snake to stretch out along one side and one end. That would be he width and depth required. Height should be about 12 to 18 inches
4ft. X 2ft. for a 6 foot snake. 3ft. X 2ft. for a 5 foot snake.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

When I first started with boas back before the internet, 86 -87 or so, my only place for info were cheep “how to keep a boa” books and EVB. I started out with a custom enclosure- 60’L x 48”T x 36”D. I just so happened to have a good heat gradient, descent humidity, no hides, and lots of places to climb, because the books called boas semi-arboreal. I broke the rules and had two together and they were pretty active, climbing and moving around. I ended up with a batch of babies after two years.

Now my boas are in a rack system and they don’t move much at all; does that mean they are content, or does it mean they don’t have the room to cruise around? I don’t mean to impose my mammal values on the reptilian brain, but I just wonder if those first snakes were better off. I don’t know, that’s why I pose the question.

We may never know...

All we can judge animal contentedness by (especially in the case of reptiles with limited behavioral response like snakes) is if the animal eats well, sheds well, poops well, grows well, breeds, and is healthy.

I've had cages larger than minimum sizes for some of my snakes in the past, and in my experience their usage of increased space depends on the individual - some snakes would constantly be exploring, and some would hide most of the time.

Now, in smaller caging, I still see the same thing - some of my snakes are constantly poking around in their cages, and some just sit in their hide boxes most of the time.
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Lauren Madar - OphidiaGems.com | CageMakers
1.1 Ball Python, 1.0 Hog Island Boa, 1.1 Hypo BCI, 1.1 Surinam BCC, 1.1 Saharan Sand Boa

Yep! I have experienced the same thing.

0.1 coral albino boa
1.0 mutt-Columbian/ was told argentine but I think central
0.1 Hog Island boa
0.1 Jungle Carpet
1.0 Irian Jaya Carpet
1.0 White Jungle Carpet
1.1 Ball Python
0.1 Hypo corn

90% of ALL Caresheets arent worth the bandwidth they consume.
(Thats another argument altogether)
Here is a little math quiz for ya,

6'BCI Female,23lbs

By my suggestion 1sq.Ft per 1 lenear foot,useing length as the greater distance how big would the cage be ?

>>It seems all over the board, I found care sheets raining for 2x3x4 to 8x3x4, some saying 6’ is the shortest you want to go with. I found one that actually said 1.5x the length! I was looking at ARS racks and their large boa tub was 52”x 33.5” that would seem to follow your formula if the snake was 12’. I don’t know if I agree with the statement “Everything after that is excessive as far as the snake is concerned”, but I would call it a good minimum size. I know that’s the size that most of the successful breeders use, and breeding is always a good sign of well being, so maybe that’s enough. I don’t know, the care sheets state otherwise. Breeders tend not to write care sheets I guess. I’m still curious what others will chime in with.
>>My question was what size would you build a display enclosure, racks are fine but some of us would like to display a member or two in our collection.
>>-Thanks
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TnK

4ft. X 1.5ft. or 3ft. X 2ft.
Both equal 6 square feet, don't they?
At 1 sq. ft. per linear foot of snake.
No reference was made regarding weight, was there?
Is it a trick question or what?
What am I missing?
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

The cage should be big enough for the animal to thermoregulate, but small enough that the animal feels secure! All of my "larger" boas are between 5-7 feet, and I feel comfortable housing them in 4 x 2 enclosures.
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Thanks,
Amy
My Boids

A thermal gradient is the key to good health. My question still stands; if you had a “show enclosure in, say , a store front, what size would best show off your BIG boas?

Try this -- If you stretched your snake out straight, from the front bottom right corner, diagonally to the left rear upper corner, there would be an excess distance, so as the snake stretched out straight, could not touch both points at the same time.
I should think those relative dimensions would be adequate.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Using that method, the largest snake that could fit into a standard 4' x 2' x 1' cage would be 4' 7" (less if you use inside cage dimensions)

>>Try this -- If you stretched your snake out straight, from the front bottom right corner, diagonally to the left rear upper corner, there would be an excess distance, so as the snake stretched out straight, could not touch both points at the same time.
>>I should think those relative dimensions would be adequate.
>>jsc
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>>"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
>>John Crickmer
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
24.36 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

So I'm not a mathematician. Just making sure there was enough room.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

And I had a tall decorated display terrarium in mind. Something about 5 times as high as wide. Something you'd put a big diurnal in -- Mangrove, Cribo, Spilotes, etc.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I'm sorry. Should read "2.5 times as high as wide". Not 5 times. What was I thinking?
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Ok, let me get this straight; you take your snake, stretch it out over the outside circumference of the cage plus the diameter squared of the last biggest rat he ate times the amount of rats he ate between the last full moon and the first rain, then you should have enough room for your snake…minus the total area of the water dish. Got it.

I just don’t get this new math…

Hey, I’m not talking minimums, I know how many snakes you can jam into a rack, I’m talking leisure space, ya know, elbow room…. Wait a minute; snakes don’t have elbows…..Never mind. I’m not looking for minimal, I’m looking for optimal.

Aw man, I gotta go to bed, I’m responding to my own posts!

Heh heh, some of my best conversations are with myself...

But yeah, I don't know that there IS an optimal answer.

Make a display cage as large as you can afford to. By afford, I mean floor space you can reasonably dedicate, building materials, substrate (if you use mulch or similar, changing all the bedding in a large cage can get costly), and heating equipment plus cost of electricity.

You need to be able to create a good temperature gradient, and that becomes harder if the cage is over a few feet tall. Also, heat rises, so you'd probably have to have heating devices at several height levels of the cage for a very tall cage, to make sure the floor wasn't too cold.

The only limit in dimensions might be depth... you don't want to have to bodily crawl into a cage to clean it. So, 2ft from front to back would probably be a good limit, and make it so the snake were reachable.

Well, and then I guess you have height - you don't want the cage so tall that the snake can be above you and hard to reach with a hook, or a long distance to fall (a couple of my snakes are clumsy klutzes)... and of course most people are limited to 7 or 8 foot tall because of their ceilings.

For reaching and bending's sake, I personally wouldn't build a cage taller than 4 feet tall inside the cage, but I'm only 5'4".

Width? Go crazy! Just keep in mind that the bigger the enclosure, the bigger the area to clean and heat.

If you asked a dog breeder what the "optimum" sized kennel run is, they'd be more than likely to give you minimum measurements too, like "it should be *at least* 6 feet wide and 12 feet long"...

Some people put in waterfalls and the like - I tried that once, and my snake liked to poop in it, and cleaning out the pump and tubing wasn't nice to do the extra maintenance. It did sound nice (that cage was in my living room at the time), but making sure the pump didn't run dry was a concern, too.

You should post your plans when you decide on them I love cagebuilding.
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Lauren Madar - OphidiaGems.com | CageMakers
1.1 Ball Python, 1.0 Hog Island Boa, 1.1 Hypo BCI, 1.1 Surinam BCC, 1.1 Saharan Sand Boa