Reptile & Amphibian Forums

It seems that some brilliant mind in Austin decided that after ceturies of them existing in what is now Big Bend Ranch State Park, that the wild burros need to be erradicated. The method of choice to date has been to do it covertly and so called "humanely" by shooting them w/ a rifle. They kept it so covert that they did not even inform the employees that work at BBRSP of their plans including the parks Superintendent who has since retired after 35 years in protest of this action.

According to today's Big Bend Sentinel, which first reported word of the killings last Thursday, 71 burros have been killed this year and their rotting corpses were left where they fell. It was reported that some of those killed were mothers w/ nursing foals. Foals that were left trying to suckle from their dead mother, only to die an agonizing death later due to lack of food or as a meal for one of the few predators that may have managed to evade being legally killed.

The park's super, after being made aware of the discovery of some of the burro corpses, launched and investigation into the killings. It turns out that he or his inquiries led to the realiziation that 2 TPW employees were doing the killings in his park w/out his knowledge, but w/ the approval of Austin. Shortly after discussing the issue w/ his superiors, the Presidio resident was transferred to Ft. Davis. Of course TPW says the transfer had nothing to do w/ the burro killings, which of course makes me want to vomit. After receiving the transfer the super put in 3 weeks vacation and retired. Upon his retirement, he made it known to the public what had happen to these wonderful creatures that I loved seeing while visiting BBRSP during the day and cruising 170 at night.

Of course TPW gave a number of reasons for their actions, some of which have a hint of truth and others that are just rank and are w/out substance or merit. To read their carefully constructed response is sickening.

So now it's illegal to move a turtle off the road, but it's OK for TPW to send employees to kill burros that have been in that part of the Bend for hundreds of years. Somehow the way they did this leads me to believe that they know it's NOT OK. They could have done other things if burro erradication from BBRSP truly needed to be done. After word of this got out last week a large donkey rescue group is now involved and TPW, in all of its infinite wisdom, finally got something right and put a moratorium to future killings while they can either work something out w/ this rescue group or they wait long enough for things to die down so they can start the killing all over again.

Once again Austin.......Brilliant!!

DB

UN-believable!
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

How nice.
Way to go, TPW.
Again, you show your true "nature."
All you wardens and such who read this forum, I really hope you're proud of the wonderful organization you are part of.
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Austin Herp. Soc.

This is truly absurd and ridiculous, total senseless killings for no real reason. I wonder what's next...??
Nathan

I don't agree with how TPW went about doing this, especially going behind the back of a park super. However, these are a non-native species. We have bullfrogs here in NM and AZ that have erradicated or are strongly working towards doing so against native species (ramsey canyon leopard frogs, tarahumara frogs, mexican garters, narrowheaded garters, etc). Our state (NM) has large mouth bass, among other non-native fish) introduced to it. Bass are introduced to Holloman AFB ponds where there was once 2 million white sands pupfish (Cyprinodon tularosa). We have oryx, barbary sheep, ibex, large ungulates (horse, cattle), burros, mosuito fish that are all introduced to here raping and altering the habitat of native species that once filled the niche these introduced species have now utilized.

So, no offense guys but can you seriously be upset for TPW actually wanting to erradicate a non-native species? I'm not trying to defend them on this, though it sure does seem so. Again, they could have gone about doing so differently.

Chris, I understand where you are coming from about non indigenous animals. Hell, I spent the first 42 years of my life living in FL. FL has been hit harder than any other state w/ regard to that problem so I'm aware of what damages can be done.

The main problem that I had/have is the way things were done. TPW knew that this idea and the methods used to carry it out would cause an uproar so they decided to do things covertly. Not only do I have a problem w/ them doing it covertly, I have a real problem w/ the methods they used to carry out their scheme.

That being said I personally think you are comparing apples to grapefruits on this one. A strong argument can certainly be made that all non indigenous species should be wiped out of any given area. While I have no scientific data to back up what I'm about to write (I doubt that TPW has any science to the contrary, but that obviously doesn't stop them on anything else), I could make an argument that the relatively small number of wild/ferral burros in this region have been here for probably half a millenium and that the change, if any, the handfull of burros may have brought to the area has most likely been miniscule. The same can definitely NOT be said about the herd of Longhorn cattle that still reside in the park due to TPW's decision to keep them there. Sure seems like a conflict w/ their so called reasoning to me.

The burros numbers are obviously controlled naturally by the environment in which they are living. Whether it be the harshness of the terrain or maybe the one or two mountain lion that have yet to be killed in this state that is keeping the numbers down would probably be anyone's guess. Either way it would be tough to convince me that these handfull of burros that have been here for centuries are causing an environmental upheaval to the native species that are occurring in BBRSP. The same can't be said for the animals you listed or the ones in which I'm so familiar w/ back in FL.

Once again I have much more of a problem w/ the actions of TPW than I do w/ the argument of them being non indigenous. At what point does a species become indigenous anyway? For what it's worth, I have a real problem w/ the ends justifying the means on this one.

DB

Doug is absolutely right. TPW's actions of late seem to reflect a culture of arrogance and political patronage. We've seen policymaking based on personal bias and expediency rather than sound biology.

After speaking with a few TPW employees "out in the field", I can thankfully say that this mentality does not seem to be invariant. But the trend at the top is disturbing to say the least.
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Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

I imagine that I like seeing the burros out on RR as much as anyone, but after reading the follow-up article in this past week's Big Bend Sentinel, the policy seems aimed at direct competitors to the planned desert bighorn population. Beside the burros, feral sheep and pigs are targeted.
It is a sad development, but there may be a happy ending for some of the burros. A non-profit out of Cal. is planning to capture and find homes for as many of these as they can. They will be needing the help of many volunteers, so I would suggest there is an opportunity, for those of you who feel so strongly about this, to do something more meaningful than throw insults at a federally approved method of controlling non-native species.

of course, what were we thinking, if its a "federally approved" program done by our fine government it has to be good!

I can't say I have any solid opinion on this except that TPWD seems to have a way of doing things very sneakily of late when they think there might be some opposition from the public. What I do wonder is how directly do these burros compete with the bighorns and is it probable that if you remove burros from the area, will mountain lions be more apt to prey on the bighorns? It seems to me a burro would be easier prey for a mountain lion, so could the presence of burros actually cut down on predation of bighorns?

Posted by: Aaron at Mon Dec 17 18:44:43 2007 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

I can't say I have any solid opinion on this except that TPWD seems to have a way of doing things very sneakily of late when they think there might be some opposition from the public.

Aaron's statement is exactly correct and unfortunate. Doing thing covertly to carry out a course of action that they know will be looked upon negatively by the public is cowardly. They need to make the argument for their plan of action before it is implemented. I know it's asking a lot, but it sure would be nice if they would stay above board and actually have some sort of scientific study/argument to back up any proposed course of action before it is implemented.

If they would have brought this to the public ahead of time this could have been avoided as I would think the same rescue group that is involved now would have involved themselves before the burros were slaughtered. Not to mention before this blew up and became public relations nightmare for TPW. Doing things correctly/right is always easier than getting caught after the fact.

Please don't misconstrue my thoughts above. My remarks are aimed at those who make the decisions in Austin, not to the guys in the field at least not the officers in this neck of the desert.

DB

Wow Jcraft75 (how I wish people would just use their names). I'm not sure which is more remarkable, your condescending comments/suggestions or the fact that you seem to buy into TPW's press release that merely tries to cover their collective donkeys after the fact. Wow!

While I certainly am not in the know of all TPW future plans, I will state that prior to moving to Alpine a year and a half ago I received 2 local papers back in FL for nearly 20 years and made 2 or 3 trips to the Bend each year over the same duration. I don't recall ever reading or hearing about TPW's plan to reintroduce Big Horn Sheep to BBRSP. It certainly makes sense to do so, but I don't recall them making it publicly known until their ridiculous prepared statements came out in the article you mentioned, but of course I could have missed it along the way. I would love to hear about when this is supposed to happen. My guess is the timetable, if one existed prior to this event, has just been moved up dramatically thanks to their recent statement.

I certainly could be wrong as I am no biologist, but I find it hard to believe that the handful of burros in BBRSP would negatively effect any possible return of Big Horns especially since I doubt they would inhabit the same areas w/in the park. I have yet to see a burro up on the hillsides where the Big Horns would be competing w/ Aoudads should they remain. I would even be willing to bet that before humans came in and wiped out the previous Big Horns that the burros and the sheep lived together, but separately for literally hundreds of years w/out ill effect upon each other.

As I stated previously, I understand very well and have seen first hand how much harm introduced species CAN do to the environment. I also understand that scenario is not absolute. I stand by my previous statments until someone makes a valid and convincing argument to the contrary.

Unfortunately TPW has repeatedly done things haphazardly and w/out scientific data to make decisions and or set policy. Anyone who visits this forum knows this as a number of examples were just given w/in this thread. For you, or anyone for that matter, to take this agency's word on anything at this point, given their extremely less than illustrious record on so many things, is in fact as ridiculous as your comments were condescending. To put it bluntly, TPW just is not credible at this point in time or for quite some time for that matter. Maybe their new Director can change that. I would think all of us hope that can come to pass.

Jon's comment about federally approved methods of slaughtering non indigenous animals stands on it own. Surely I would think you could come up w/ quite a few examples of governmental policy at any level that are just plain ludicrous in some fashion.

DB

The j is for John.

Condescending is not what I was going for, though I was trying to strike a nerve.
Too many times, people stand around yelling "FIRE!", without trying to put it out, unless they are somehow compelled.
I was trying to compell those of you who find this slaughter so unacceptable, to seize the opportunity to get involved and help, rather than settle for crying out for injustice.
Action, they say, speaks louder than words.
Perhaps, given that challenge, you became offended by the realization that you, like so many others, would rather announce the problem without being involved in the solution...leave the heavy lifting to someone else.
Now that, that was condescending.
I was not attempting to defend, or agree with, the way the removal of the burros was handled.
As I stated, I enjoyed seeing the animals as much as anyone, but I do not have a problem with them being removed anymore than a feral pig.
Many of you have stated that you've never seen them on a hillside, but I have seen them numerous times in the vicinity of the big hill. Where would they have made it from ? Did they follow the road up from the river?
When herpers were outraged about the ban on road collecting, they organized, and are now attempting to reverse that decision.
For as many of you who cried foul on this issue, who has contacted the non-profit that is doing someething about it?
I have not seen a "Save the Burros" thread, as of yet, merely a "Texas Parks and Wildlife Sucks" campaign.
Show me that you're doing something, and I'll stop calling you out.

John Craft

I think I hate exotic/non-native species more than anyone, but this was not a good way to go about it. What the heck? they kill donkeys because they interfere with big horns, yet they release thousands of rainbow trout into the different rivers in and around Austin/San Marcus/the hill country? Where is the logic in that? Why do they kill elk on site on elephant mountain(big horn sheep area) when they were once native to the area, and why isn't there hunting regulated across the state? Why is the hunting of ring neck pheasants (from china) regulated and not the hunting of buffalo (again-native)? There are and have been some idiots running wildlife in Texas, it is a wonder that many young minds see how TPWD really works and decide to pursue another career. Don't even get me started on the methods of the killings, that is another story, it should have been done a lot cleaner and more in the open. Hell they could have herded them with a helicopter into a pen and loaded them up and sold them to the French to make some steaks out of.
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South Texas Herps

Let us not forget that the donkey population is not likely to have any more impact than the free ranging cattle in BB-Ranch... I have seen far more of them over time. Also I have yet to see a donkey up on the side of hill, so what are they competing with again?

Lance
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Herp Conservation Unlimited

I think they are trying to save catt, i mean big horned sheep, or was it audad, or perhaps there saving illegals? I dont know
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South Texas Herps