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Questions about Cal King Breeding

rockratt Dec 14, 2007 03:13 AM

I have a few questions about Brumation and Breeding. First off I live in Southern California and have my three cal Kings brumating right now and plan on breeding the 2 females and 1 male come the end of February or begining of march.

Now my question is HOW can I get the Temp down to 55Degrees? Any type of cooler or small air conditioning units available? Right now the Cold part of the night the temp drops in the closet to about 57-58Degrees and during the hottest time of day it goes up to about 67Degrees. Right now the days have been still kind of warm. Is it okay with these temps?

Second question is with the mix of coloration of my Cal Kings what most should I expect out of breeding them? See Pics below. The Male is about 8 years old, 48" long, Brown and off-white banded. One female 5 years old, about 42-44 inches long,is High White with what looks like aberrant patterns/white striped pattern. The Second Female is Dark Brown with White Stripe, about 42-44" long, very thick body compared to either of the other two. WILL I get mostly stripes? Banded? Aberrant? What do you all think? Thanks in advance to any that help me out. I have had snakes most of my life but never had bred them before. I am getting VERY excited!!!

MALE:

High White Female:

Striped Female:

Replies (8)

tspuckler Dec 14, 2007 06:40 AM

There's no "magic number" when it comes to an ideal brumation temperature. The temperatures you mentioned will be fine. The temperature is often cooler on the floor and against an outside wall of the house. This can easily be checked with a thermometer. People are often surprised as to how cold certain areas of their house may be.

Tim
Third Eye
Third Eye

SDeFriez Dec 14, 2007 08:22 AM

There's a good section on the shortist brumation time you have done, farther down on this page. It that has some very good info my some very knowledgeable people. Also what you might get out of the breeding could vary. Try useing the Punnett squares. This could help you out better.

Scott D

FR Dec 14, 2007 10:48 AM

I first bred cal kings in 1964 and I was a pioneer in Cal king breeding and produced many of the morphs around today. Many of my breeding records are STILL unmatched to this day.

Oh and of course, I was from SoCal, and coastal(not hot or cold) actually the anaheim, buena park area. I never forced hibernated anything. There is absolutely no need to.

No snake needs to be 55F at anytime in its life. Period. Many of the years I kept kingsnakes, I simply kept them in a carport, with a small lite in the cage in the winter the got cooler and they warmed up, and when it warmed up and they bred BECAUSE I FED THEM.

Then I started moving around the country, and I kept my cal kings at 84F with constant lite, 24/7, 365 and they grew up fine and their breeding season began a month earlier each and every year. They had an 11 month yearly cycle. Then a decade or so later, after I moved to tucson, we started playing with hibernation or what people are calling brumation. Well you can do that, and it is easier on the keeper, you know, to forget about your snakes for part of the year. And if you get it right, it works, SORTA/marginally.

I found that if you allow them to find warm areas(hot spot, whatever) They grow faster, they produce more and get much larger and do so, for a very long time. With this method, I rasied individuals above record size in most of the species I worked with.

Back to the 84F Thing, that worked great with cal kings, but not so great with montane kings. So a little adjustment had to be made, montanes could not withstand temps consistantly over 80F(males) so we allowed most the the cage to cool down and left a 1/4 of the cage with a heat source, lite bulb, heat strip, etc. Then that worked well for all species.

In tucson, the summer heat, actually caused them to stop producing. To hot here starting in early June. But, if you cool the room so nights are cool, they will continue and even triple clutch. Well that was decades ago.

Last year I triple clutched a L.thayeri or two. But I kept them in a mouse room that has to stay cool.

Remember I said I moved all around the country, I built zoos for a living. Well a couple years in New Orleans, I lived in a stupid apartment and it never got cool, as the floors below you would heat up their houses and heat raises. The coolest I could get them was 65F and guess what, They bred like flys. Before that, I was doing a zoo in Seattle and they have basements that stay 55F or so, year around. Guess what, all I did was add heat and whamo eggs and babies out my ears.

Again, 55F is no magic number, in fact, its a very restrictive number. Why most/many of these folks preach this stuff is beyond me, narrow minded I guess. So pick a way, have fun and no worries mate. Oh and what will come from those three is a bunch of mucky mucks. That is a blend of all and everything inbetween. No one can predict exactly what, if those are captive produced, they are most likely het for everything under the sun.

The top, banded, and the bottom, striped, if wild caught could be homozygous for their expressed pattern, but the middle one is a cross of local natural phenotypes. Thats not bad or anything, it only means you can expect it to be christmas, you won't know whats in the package until they open. Cheers

Joe Forks Dec 14, 2007 02:54 PM

>>>>>I rasied individuals above record size in most of the species I worked with.

I remember this male Juno alterna morph you had way back when, when you pulled it out of the cage it just kept coming and coming, fifty something inches hahahaha my jaw dropped.
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Aaron Dec 14, 2007 10:52 PM

Frank, you said,
"Back to the 84F Thing, that worked great with cal kings, but not so great with montane kings. So a little adjustment had to be made, montanes could not withstand temps consistantly over 80F(males) so we allowed most the the cage to cool down and left a 1/4 of the cage with a heat source, lite bulb, heat strip, etc."

About how cold was the cool end?

If I kept alterna at my room temp (72-76 daytime and 62-68 nightime) with a heat tape at a constant 77 day and night what kind of results could I expect with regard to fertility?

I am thinking of setting up a large communal cage this way and keeping a group of 2.2 alterna in it year round. The above temps would be in effect from basicly now through March. Of course summer temps would be about 5 to 10 degrees warmer across the board.

antelope Dec 14, 2007 04:35 PM

your temps will probably be ok, put the male directly on the florr with the two females on top, imho. You will get a whole lotta abberants and some partial stripers I would suppose.

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Todd Hughes

bakeaway Dec 14, 2007 05:16 PM

I live in Los Angeles and I ended up buying a wine cooler from Target. Iwas about $60. I pput a spacer in the door for air and it still stays at 52-55 degrees.This is the first time I have tried to breed snakes. And after reading some of the post I might not brumate as long or at all next time.
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rockratt Dec 14, 2007 09:01 PM

Thanks to all that answered, it is great to put many ideas together. To answer FR the BANDED male is wild caught from la habra Ca. area when i lived just down the hill form la habra heights. I have never brumated my male (which i have had for about 7 years now) but he did slow down in the winter months. I only wanted to try brumation since quite a bit I read said it helped with the development of sperm and eggs. I also have read many post that people pointed out they never brumated and had no issues. Well I am getting anxious, maybe I will not let it go as long as I was planning. Two of the kings have been in brumation since about end of October and end of november. The male just went down about a two weeks ago. Maybe i'll wait until january and start heating them and feeding them. Again thanks for all the comments. Rich M.

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