Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, I can say that Henric and I don't use the term "Hypo" when it comes to Jaguars. We feel that it doesn't accurately describe the difference. I would personally opt to say that Hypos are hi-contrast. (Seems higher amount of yellow) All of the breeding that has occured with our projects, have been from a so called "Hypo" male to normal females.
Not trying to start any arguements, just expressing my opinions based on what I've seen.
Here is a pic of one of my males, be he "Hypo"?

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Best Regards,
Cori
SnakeRoom.net

what we consider to be hypo... much like what you would see down in Australia.. This project will be underway soon enough...

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Best Regards,
Cori
SnakeRoom.net

Here is a full body shot.. No alterations to this pic... I took it on a white background, and cleaned up the edges to make them white...

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Best Regards,
Cori
SnakeRoom.net

Cori,

I think you guys are really shooting yourselves in the foot with all of this stuff. I asked you guys at the Daytona show if you brought any "Hypo Jaguars" and you guys immediately said "No." and then dove into this "It's not really hypo" lecture, so I promptly explained that I know that the hypos are not technically hypomelanistic. After I made that perfectly clear, you two continued to try talking about why it's not really a "Hypo." It didn't seem like either of you were willing to give me a straight answer to my question (Is this a hypo or a regular Jaguar?), so I just walked away. The impression I got is that you guys only had the original Jaguar and that you were trying to sell them for $4-5,000. If I'm going to pay $5,000, I want to know that what I'm buying is the same line that Eric refers to as a "Hypo Jaguar" and NOT the original Jaguar that sells for $3,000. The way you guys handled my question, I didn't know what you had on your table.

I think it's common knowledge that the "Hypo Jaguar" is not really hypomelanistic, but since that's the term that the originator (Eric) gave them, I think it would be wise of you and Henric to continue using that term to avoid confusing people.

Needless to say, I'll be buying my Hypo Jag from either Eric or someone in the U.S.
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Anthony Caponetto
http://reptiles.drivennewmedia.com

"I think it's common knowledge that the "Hypo Jaguar" is not really hypomelanistic"

Well in that case no more needs to be said....

I think you are all jumping to conclusions with the word "hypo". The prefix "hypo-" just means less than normal or reduced. "Hyper-" means excessive, or more than normal. All they do is describe the word that is is attached to. Everyone is using "hypo" with no word after it. Then people are assuming it is melanistic of black. Maybe "hyper-xanathic" is the way to go. Excessive yellow?

Am I wrong on this? Those two words are just prefixes, and alone mean nothing. They need an adjective to attach to.

Matt

I'm not jumping to any conclusions. I'm fully aware that the prefix "Hypo" mean less, and I honestly can't see that there is less of anything in the "Hypo Jaguar." I don't really know why Eric decided to use the word "Hypo," but since it's obvious that he didn't mean hypoxanthic, we can all assume that it was probably used as an abreviation of hypomelanistic.

Personally, I've always thought of the "Hypo Jaguar" as the hyperxanthic form of the Jaguar.

My whole point (as I stated before), is if the $5K version has been referred to as the "Hypo Jaguar" all along, I think it's best to either stick with it, or at the very least, call it something else to differentiate between the that phase and the regular Jaguar.

When someone is talking about spending $5K as opposed to $3K (which I am), it's best to be clear about what you're selling, which at the Daytona show, they were not. This all seems trivial until you're in the shoes of the guy that's about to drop five grand on a snake, which I will hopefully be doing fairly soon.

The reason I even brought it up is because Henric had some type of Jaguar on his table, and I asked if it was a "Hypo Jaguar" or just a "Jaguar." Instead of a straight answer, I was given an answer of "The Hypo Jaguar is not really Hypomelanistic..." and so on and so forth. No matter how correct that may be, that still didn't answer my question as to what it was that was sitting on the table. So, I explained that I agreed about the animal not being hypomelanistic, and still, they wanted to talk about how wrong it was to call that phase "Hypo." It just seemed to me that they were preoccupied with proving how wrong it is to use the term "Hypo" and that they were trying to avoid telling me that there was just a regular Jaguar on their table.

-Anthony

>>I think you are all jumping to conclusions with the word "hypo". The prefix "hypo-" just means less than normal or reduced. "Hyper-" means excessive, or more than normal. All they do is describe the word that is is attached to. Everyone is using "hypo" with no word after it. Then people are assuming it is melanistic of black. Maybe "hyper-xanathic" is the way to go. Excessive yellow?
>>
>>Am I wrong on this? Those two words are just prefixes, and alone mean nothing. They need an adjective to attach to.
>>
>>Matt
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Anthony Caponetto
http://reptiles.drivennewmedia.com

I´m not going in to a debate, but what I was trying to explain is that my babies are from a breeding from a male from "the so called Hypoline" and normal mcdowelli females and also with a "regular Jaguar". Noone knows, what this will end up in. If I have offended you in any way, Anthony. Please let me know, because, I´ve been just trying to explain what I know!!!
Morelia Inc

Henric,

I'm not offended at all, but it just seemed that you guys were less concerned with answering my question (which was pretty straight forward) and more interested in disproving the name "Hypo Jaguar." I only was only asking what was sitting there on the table, not what you had been breeding, or what you really thought the "Hypo Jaguar" should be called. If my question wasn't so blatantly ignored, I probably would have stuck around longer to discuss things in detail, but since I had no say in where the "conversation" was going, I just walked away. I felt like I had asked someone about their car and gotten an answer as to who they thought was going to win the football game.

>>I´m not going in to a debate, but what I was trying to explain is that my babies are from a breeding from a male from "the so called Hypoline" and normal mcdowelli females and also with a "regular Jaguar". Noone knows, what this will end up in. If I have offended you in any way, Anthony. Please let me know, because, I´ve been just trying to explain what I know!!!
>>Morelia Inc
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Anthony Caponetto
http://reptiles.drivennewmedia.com

Well, still Anthony! The animals I had on my table was Jaguars. They are from a breeding between...., yeahh, you know! What should I call them???????? This ha been my problem!

Oh boy...I just reread my posts. I'm really sorry. I was at work when I was posting earlier, so I came off as being really short, when that wasn't my intent. That's what I get for posting in a hurry, when I shouldn't be.

I really had no idea that there was a "naming crisis" going on in the Jaguar world. That's a good thing though, because it means Carpets are catching on!

Anyway...Personally, I am 100% certain that they aren't truly Hypomelanistic (or Hypo anything), but I just accepted what Eric dubbed them, since the Jaguar line originated as a result of his captive breeding efforts. I figured since he's introduced one of the finest morphs I've ever laid eyes on, he can call it whatever he likes. lol

At the same time, I do understand that you have what appears to be a truly hypomelanistic specimen, and that you probably want to make sure that they aren't confused. So, if you want to keep it technical, I would seriously think about the coining them as "Hyper Jaguar." It's technically correct (in my opinion it is hyperxanthic) and as a bonus, it sounds pretty cool too.

>>Well, still Anthony! The animals I had on my table was Jaguars. They are from a breeding between...., yeahh, you know! What should I call them???????? This ha been my problem!
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Anthony Caponetto
http://reptiles.drivennewmedia.com

And this can be sorted out sooned than later.

But no matter what happens with names the Carpets are going to
get real confusing real fast. As the Jaguars even "classic" can
vary so much, naming them Jag this or that is going to be crazy
in the next few years. IMO taking a morph and adding a sud-morph
to it is asking for complications. Call them Jaguars and price by
the look of the animals.

Mardy a confused but proud Jaguar owner

I like hyperaxanthic, definitely is more appropriate...
What about Hi-Contrast? Like Dave Prada's Hi-contast queenslands, I have a female, she is nice and high yellow!!

PS how is your Irian Jaya feeding now, since the metrodiazanole??

Cori
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Best Regards,
Cori
SnakeRoom.net

Cori,
Female IJ is still a pain in the rear. She last ate on June 21st, 2 rat pups. I didn't want to overdo it on the Hex-a-Mit, so I have not used it since then. She got my hopes up when she fed after using the small does in her water. She just shows no interest in the pups when i introduce them to her cage, or place them in tupperware containter. I even have tried small mice, which I hate doing, but she doesn't like that either. My male IJ has a super feeding response to mice, chicks, and quail. I really don't know what to do with the female. It is really frustrating that she will not eat (at least I have a Florida Kingsnake that is a garbage disposal to eat everything that she turns down). She does seem healthy. SHe is not scrawny and dehydrated. I mist her cage, she drinks the water drops. She drinks from her water dish. She uses her had spot in the day, and is active or perching on a branch at night. Maybe it is time for another dose of "the medicine".

Matt

i know how many of you python/boa owners laugh at us mere corn owners, but one thing i don't understand... where is the logic in calling a snake hypo, when that snake IS NOT HYPO. i am not a jcp/ijcp owner at this point, but it is an unfortunate thing if it is "common knowledge" that a HYPO JAGUAR is not actually hypo. there should be nothing "common" about such illogical misuse of terminology... i am not trying to start an argument, but seriously can't we "coin" a name that is less misleading than this? why are we calling a snake that is not hypo, hypo?
and don't think i don't know that us corn snakers are full of crap too... i complain twice as much in that forum with all the ridiculous claims of new morphs just because there is a HINT more of white here or there, i think it's all craziness
....
and after all my griping...
do carpets have as many problems as normal ball pythons do as far as consistent feeding? i have successfully kept corns (and successfully bred them, hatched 20/20 this summer) - but never had a python or boa... i'm confident i would be able to successfully keep one, but would prefer to avoid the picky feeding that i've heard is common with ball pythons...
thanks for your opinions and replies!

i would be very surprised if the people who are calling these jaguars "hypo jaguars" were UNAWARE that hypomelanism has been proven in corn snakes as a genetically recessive trait... AND that "hypo" is used as a shortcut for saying hypomelanistic in front of any morph that may have that genetic trait... wouldn't it be 100x easier to say "light phase" jaguar? or hell, "bright phase" or anything that doesn't give the impression that there could be another gene at play? just my useless opinion---

I think you're absolutely right. I would gladly welcome another term for the "Hypo" Jaguar, if someone would just give it one. Therein lies the problem. I was merely trying to figure out what line of Jaguar was sitting on the table in front of me ("Hypo Jaguar" or "Regular Jaguar" and didn't know what else to call it. lol

If you're considering Carpets, but worried about finicky feeding, don't worry...they're usually chow hounds. Granted, every species has its picky eaters, Carpet Pythons are nothing like Ball Pythons when it comes to feeding.

>>i would be very surprised if the people who are calling these jaguars "hypo jaguars" were UNAWARE that hypomelanism has been proven in corn snakes as a genetically recessive trait... AND that "hypo" is used as a shortcut for saying hypomelanistic in front of any morph that may have that genetic trait... wouldn't it be 100x easier to say "light phase" jaguar? or hell, "bright phase" or anything that doesn't give the impression that there could be another gene at play? just my useless opinion---
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Anthony Caponetto
http://reptiles.drivennewmedia.com

that everyone is being cordial with this discussion!! I've seen people expressing their opinons so rudely here and especially on some of the other forums... Anthony, I wish I could have met you in person, I could have at least met one person, (besides Will Leary) that was active here and on Jim's site.. Hell, would have bought you some beer, and picked at your brain a little.. I didn't meet anyone who was in to carpets as much as us here! Carpets are truely my passion!
Take care,
Cori
PS I saw your tiger striped, and thought, hmmm, tiger striped Jaguar!! Those would be nice!!
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Best Regards,
Cori
SnakeRoom.net

In reference to the various statements and discussions on the
forum concerning the regular, hypo and red hypo Jags within
the Jaguar project I would like to say the following.
So-called Hypo or Red Hypo Jaguars distinguish themselves
already at birth compared to regular Jaguars.

I have no answer to why Henric ( Morelia Inc.) has no clue of
what to call his offspring, BUT if he really did produce a Hypo
Jaguar he would have seen the difference between the two morphs
immediately.

I gave the Hypo Jaguar its name because it resembled the features
of the Hypo Honduran Milksnake in my opinion. Namely, reduced
black tipping, high contrast and brilliant color.

Of course, it is up to you if you want to call the Hypo Jaguar
for "High Contrast" on your website.
Fine with me, but I am not changing my definition of the Jaguar
project or the Jaguar morphs. I see no reason to rename something
that people are already familar with.

The only thing I know for a fact is that my various Jaguar blood-
lines produce different quality animals and I can easily see which
are regular, hypo or red hypo Jags etc.
My customers know what they are paying for when receiving the animals
they order.There is no doubt that you get the Jaguar morph you
pay for here at JBC.
If someone wants to sell regular Jaguars at Hypo prices then be my
guest.
Some satisfied customers have already posted pics of their Hypo
Jaguars on the Forum and these clearly show the difference between
Hypo and regular Jaguars.
Best Regards,
Jan Eric Engell/JAGUAR BREEDING CENTER

hypo : less than normal or normally.
melanin: a dark brown or black animal or plant pigment.

These "Jaguar" morph of coastal carpet pythons(m.s. mcdoweli) clearly produces less brown/black pigment than "normal" coastal carpet pythons. While they may not look quite as contrasting as other "hypo" snakes , they are still technically correctly named hypo-melanistic.

After writing that I glanced into a cpl of my carpets cages. I noticed that they have reduced black compared to most and more than some. I guess they are incorrectly named hypo. Insert foot in mouth.