Reptile & Amphibian Forums

yeah this is a total noob question but I finally got around to verifying the sex of several ball pythons I purchased over the past six months. I should've done it sooner but I was buying from "well known" breeders so I really didn't sweat it much. Any-hoo, I probe several balls and I came up w/ about 1/2 inch deep on some and an inch deep on the others and then a few that were maybe a 1/4 of an inch. Seems kind of a broad spectrum and I've done a little internet research so.....the research says 6 subcaudal scales is female and more is male. Is that fool proof?
What is your experience?
Thanks,
Russ

"Don't know why I'm getting into Balls...I must have lost my mind"

Russ, nothing is fool proof. Females SHOULD probe less than 6 but sometimes there will be an exception. If you're getting more, try popping them. I've seen people pop adult males like they were hatchlings. If you're getting an inch, I'd call "male". I just found out my female spider is a male after raising her for the last year. She was popped and not probed. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, double check females. The ONLY 100% accurate method of sexing is.........breeding. Not even probing is 100%.

Good luck.
Brandon Osborne
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www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

Agree with Brandon. How's it going Russ? Your overseas job fall through?
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Dale....dgoins222@yahoo.com
www.LibertyReptiles.com

different place, different time but still going How are the bulls?
Russ

They're doing great...probably the best looking thing in the snake room right now. You'll be glad you got into Balls...breeding routine a little different from colubrids, but very rewarding.
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Dale....dgoins222@yahoo.com
www.LibertyReptiles.com

I've had a few probe up to 5 scales and they were confirmed females when the eggs came. LOL.

Be sure to probe both sides. I have a proven female that probes 7 deep on one side. Oh, and NEVER trust anyone. Mistakes happen. I picked up a 100% het pied female from a trusted source. She is a he. I'm out $1,500 bucks - lesson learned.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

what should be considered a trusted source!
"Mistakes happen. I picked up a 100% het pied female from a trusted source. She is a he. I'm out $1,500 bucks - lesson learned."
If it was a trusted source and they made a mistake as serious as wrong gender, why are you out $1500?
If that happened to me I wouldn't consider them a trusted source.
If they are not willing to make it right, their name and your experience with them should be posted on that other site.
Just my opinion.

I have known them for about 5 years and done a few successful deals. We spent quite a bit of time on the phone and email. I once had an animal suddenly die and they replaced it without question. I considered them trusted.

As far as reporting them... they are going through a tough time (divorce). They are not focused on other issues. Is it right? No, but at the end of the day, I consider a divorce a pretty significant event when compared to my own. I've been pretty unfortunate in my pied projects - non-feeders from a large, unresponsive breeder, this mis-sexed animal, etc. I believe in Karma and I hope that the two of them can make it through the divorce with their sanity and I will eventually have a pied. Life sometimes isn't about me, but rather the "big" picture.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

I appreciate the feedback. Time will tell beause the whole probe thing is / could be giving me a false positive or vice versa.
Russ

What I've noticed is that with males, there is a definate "feel" to the way they probe.
In males, due to the hemipenes (which is why males probe deep), there's a little bit of gentle searching around with the probe and then an easy slide down the length of the hemipene on that side. Once you recognize it, it's pretty easy to notice it again the next time you probe.
Females don't have hemipenes, just cloacal glands, so when they probe it's not nearly as easy, and not as much of a slide in. I have probed deep females before, and the reason I knew they were females was because there was no easy slide into where the hemipene is. Since probing, at least one of those females has been 'proven' to be a female through breeding.

Am I making sense? Don't necessarily look for how deep it is, look to find where a hemipene is. Without hemipenes, no matter how deep it probes, it can't be male.

~jenny
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"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire