Reptile & Amphibian Forums

attempting a post experiment

Platinum? =/
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.kingpinreptiles.com
^ Updated 11/29

What exactly are the genetics involved here... That snake looks like a Snow Florida king but with a Cali king Pattern

more info pleeeeeeease???

Very cool snake!

~ZF
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Comprehend better than MOST... but i'm NOT claiming to be an expert...

WOW!

I don't know what the genetics are behind a Platimum Cal king. I never heard of one before but whatever combo that is it is sweet.

Since there have not been any true axanthics released into the hobby i am going to take a bad guess and say this is a desert cal king phenotype (black and white cal king X lavender albino) bred into a lavender. Probably to simple a guess but a guess none-the-less. Lets here some others.
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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!

More info please Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

I guess "platinum" sort of fits as a color description. Whatever the genetics and whatever word you choose, very nice looking King. Never seen one like that before.

reako45

new to the whole forum experience

the story is; I spotted a unique looking cal, cupped individually on a wholesalers table, six years ago. I grabbed it for $25. The vender thought it was an albino desert, but didn't know where or when he obtained it of course. I doubted it being an albino des phase. but bred it to one anyway two years later because I had to start somewhere and already had adult alb deserts to use. The yielding clutch was generic coastal looking aberrant bandeds. Breeding a daughter back to my original got my ONE more with that. So right now I have the one platinum pair that should be big enough to produce in 09' and the "het" I used.

everyone's welcome to give me guesses, opinions or input

I think it is an albino desert because the coastal yellow phase were used to bred the albino gene into the deserts. After sevral back breeding to get the yellow out they still did not look white and the dark bands wrre still brown in the albino form. This snake you have look like the black fianlly turned balck in the albino form. It is possible that the first breeding you did produced some from the dark and light end of the spectrum (like most clutches) and that is why you got one nice real white banded one.

Anyway I don't know if people understand my thinking but that is what my guess is.
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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!

I've bred numerous cal kings that produced white on white albinos (what would have been black and white). Yellow on normals is yellow in albinos (in cal kings).

Kerby...

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Lonesome Valley Reptiles
www.lonesomevalleyreptiles.com
Specializing In California Kingsnakes

I know what you are saying Kerby about the yellow in desters still appear yellow in cal kings. But what I am saying is that (when the project got started one particular breeder in the late 70's) I was around to see the back breeding until the mid 80's. As a result the yellows did bred out but it took many back-breedings. The black still looked brown but the white did improve and then the project was dropped. I think what you have seen are cali deserts that have not been bred back to pure black and white cals enough. And even then a lot of the black and whites don't have true black but brown bands. Thats why this looks like a result of a B&W lavender. Why else would he produce another from an arbitray line he happned to already have? That probabilty sounds very low and if they had been around why havn't we seen more of these?

I guess the only way to prove it is get in touch with the person he bought it from and try and trace a history.
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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!

Kerby,
okay I see know he bred the original back to its daughter and not an arbitrary line and got a white. That makes sense and you are correct that there could be more than one gene at work.

Serrao,
How long ahve you been working with this white cal? How long ago did you purchase it?
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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!

It "looks" like an albino hypo.

**I doubted it being an albino des phase. but bred it to one anyway two years later...**

So the original one looked like the one in the picture (or is the one in the picture) and then you bred it to a desert phase albino? If so, then ALL THE babies would have been albino...if it was an albino or an albino x something else.

**The yielding clutch was generic coastal looking aberrant bandeds.**

Then you have 2 separate recessive genes (albino and whatever your cal king is). Even if it was displaying 2 recessive genes at the same time (albino & hypo), then all your babies would still be albino....so I'm not sure what when on there....unles it is a lavender & hypo

**Breeding a daughter back to my original got my ONE more with that. So right now I have the one platinum pair that should be big enough to produce in 09' and the "het" I used.**

The "stats" aren't adding up....... Was the "daughter" the same looking as the original daddy? If so..then you should have produced ALL of the same?

Can you post a pic of the original daddy, some pics of the first offspring?

Either way...fantastic snake!

AND I WOULD LIKE TO GET A PAIR FROM YOU!

Kerby...
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Lonesome Valley Reptiles
www.lonesomevalleyreptiles.com
Specializing In California Kingsnakes

Could the original $25 snake have been a lavender B&W and then he bred it to an amel B&W that he already had? This produced double het lav and alb babies. Breeding one of those babies back to the original $25 snake and the resulting "platinum" could be another lav B&W that's het for amel? Or could be a double homo albino lavender B&W?
Whatever it is it's very cool.

**Or could be a double homo albino lavender B&W?**

I believe that is one possibility. Although I have been breeding double het albino/lavenders for 2 years now...I don't believe I have produced a double homo....unless they don't look any different as babies...but rather change in color after a year like some do?

Or it is a double homo albino/hypo (not sure which hypo though).

Kerby...
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Lonesome Valley Reptiles
www.lonesomevalleyreptiles.com
Specializing In California Kingsnakes

Yeah, I don't think it's a new gene at work. I think it's either a single gene or some combo of amel, hypo or lav being expressed on an uncommon backround color. There are said to be a locality that has light brown and snow white normals but I have not seen them.

I have not seen the locality, but I have seen plenty of them. I used to work for Kevin Bryant Reptiles and we had a ton of the brown and snow white banded animals. Personally, I still like b & w better. I agree with you on the JD or JR strain being a culprit in the mix.

Brandon Osborne
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www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

Breeding double hets (albino/lavender) produced both albinos and lavenders in the same clutch....and I have no idea if I produced any double homos as I'm not sure what an albino/lavender will look like as a hatchling?

I kept a couiple of those lavenders....but sold everything else.

I think I've sold a couple hundred of different type of double hets (wholesale).....

Kerby...

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Lonesome Valley Reptiles
www.lonesomevalleyreptiles.com
Specializing In California Kingsnakes

Kerby, I assume that the T- amel would override the T since t- has total reduction of melanin. It's only a theory of mine, but you could very well have produced double-homos in that breeding. Very cool stuff you've done with cal kings. Keep it up.

Brandon Osborne
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www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

T negative WOULD "override" the T positive

I did mention it b4 but i don't think anyone was listening.

in T positive tyrosinase is present but melanin still can't be synthesized... the T negative mutation would eliminate that factor. i don't think a 2x Homozygous Amelanistic cali king will be visually different than a T negative.

It would be wise to hold onto all the T negatives and breed back to Lavenders (Tpositve)

I think Amel T- X Hypo would yield similar results, in that the T- would mask the hypo

Now Lavender X Hypo... i think that would yield a distinctly different looking specimen

just my thoughts...

~Z

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Comprehend better than MOST... but i'm NOT claiming to be an expert...

great minds think alike. lol.

Brandon Osborne
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www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

I don't think it's hypo, but is probably an outcross of one strain of lavender. Since there are three strains of albino in cal kings, it's probably.........take your pick. I'm sure by now more strains of albino cal kings are floating around. I'm just going on what I knew in the early 90s and I could definately be wrong. So...I think it's an outcross desert phase lavender of one strain or another. Neat looking snake any way you look at it.

Brandon Osborne
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www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

Definitely something different....

When you say different kinds of albinism...are you referring to the different lavender strains?

The cal king pictured here is just a double het (albino & lavender). The only baby out of the clutch that had a different look to it as a baby. The parents were an albino and a lavender. All the babies are from that clutch are double hets (albino & lavender) yet something different looking in this one....

So jserrao....did this snake look any different as a baby when you bought it...or did it just look like an regular $25 albino?

I think jserrao's cal king is showing 2 recessive traits at the same time (albino and some kind of hypo).

Thanks

Kerby...

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Lonesome Valley Reptiles
www.lonesomevalleyreptiles.com
Specializing In California Kingsnakes

This is an Albino x Hypo (Great Valley Serpentarium Lavender) project that produced normal looking (aberrants) that are double hets (albino & hypo)...now when I breed back, 1/16 will show both albino and hypo at the same.....I would imagine that outcome would look like jserrao's cal king.

I'm not saying that's what his is...jus making a guess.

Kerby...

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Lonesome Valley Reptiles
www.lonesomevalleyreptiles.com
Specializing In California Kingsnakes

I also bred these 2 this year.

Lavender x Hypo (Great Valley Serpentarium lavender)

All the babies came out banded (double hets).

I can see the possibilities looking similar to jserao's snake.

An Lavender Hypo.

Kerby...

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Lonesome Valley Reptiles
www.lonesomevalleyreptiles.com
Specializing In California Kingsnakes

Yes that seems a very possible combo. Perhaps a double homo JRxJD lav on a king that would normally have white or near white bands.