Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am thinking of getting a pair of Sinloans, and found a fairly local guy with some nice ones. He claims his stock is mostly mixed from Lemke and Applegate.

My question is the pair I want are definitely orange rather then red, and slightly yellow rather then white. He claims one pair of his adults throws these ever so often. I figured they were hets for HypoErythristic, but he said he has raised up the orange ones and they don't breed true. They throw both red and orange babies.

Any one have any ideas or experience with this?
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

Good question. My thought without seeing photos of the actual snakes is that these adults are most likely not het hypoerythristics but animals that simply produce nice red and lighter colored offspring. Coming from Applegate and Lemke lineage, they are probably closer to actual Mexican locality animals or snakes similar to, than the hypoerythristic line.
I have been working with the hypoerythristics for over 8 years now, acquiring the entire original line of animals from Pete Cragg himself. For many years Cragg, Justin Mitcham and myself were the only ones distributing these animals to the public.
But to get back more to your thoughts and questions, what I have seen through the years with hatching and raising up many of the hypoerythristics, is that babies are born quite dull in coloration. The red bands are noticeably darker; a more brownish-red appearance. The thin yellow bands are clearly white. As the animals age, the reddish-brown bands begin to lighten, becoming different shades of light and dark orange and sometimes pink. After a few years, the snakes with lighten up considerably with many adults becoming light pink. Some, however will end up keeping their orange. The white bands eventually become diffused with black tipping and will have somewhat of an overall grey wash. Although with these hypoerythristics, no two animals from the same clutch will grow up to be identical. There will be variability like everything else. So, basically, since the "local guy" has even claimed himself that these animals won't duplicate themselves in regards to coloration, they are most likely animals that are simply capable of producing nicely colored offspring. They sound nice regardless.
Hope this helps. Feel free to drop me an e-mail with any additional questions. Below is a comparison shot to give you a better idea of a pure hypoerythristic adult versus a normal colored sinaloan.
Nathan Wells

and e-mail Anthony. Please send a few pictures when you pick up these animals. I am certainly interested in seeing them. From what you describe, they sound similar to the "apricot" colored sinaloans that my friend Vinny Lynch is working with.
Kind regards and Happy Holidays.
Nathan Wells

Thanks for the info. They may well be similar to Vinny's. The breeder is in Connecticut, which is between him and me. It wouldn't be absurd if they aren't related animals.
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

I'm in the great state of Conn. too! Well, I dont know how great it is now that I think about it

They might be related, I got mine from a guy at a table at the white plains show more then a few years ago now (I think 5 yrs ago). He was a local breeder who had a few of them (but I got the best looking ones that day). I have been back there many times and have never seen him again and didn't get his name. Back then I just wanted to get a nice pair to raise up and try my hand at breeding. Didn't know anything about lineages and the like.

I also sold the first couple of clutches to local pet stores in trade for frozen feeders so there are some floating around that are from me as well.

If they are related I would love to know it cause then I could finally track down who I got them from!

Best,
Vinny

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“There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that whilst this planet has gone on cycling according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” -C. Darwin, 1859

Natural Selection Reptiles

I have a few albino nelsoni. One is bright red & white and one is bright orange & yellow. Not very good pictures but hopefully the colors show up. My understanding is just natural variation.
But ... I've been wrong a few times today.
Steve

You are correct Steve. In regards to the albino nelson's, the different shades of colors seen in the wider bands and within the triads you have shown are natural variations. The bright red bands with clean white triads are what many consider the "classic" look where as the animals with bright yellow triads are known as the "high yellows".
The animals you have pictured are extremely nice examples. Thanks for sharing. Here is a Moody Line albino female.
Nathan Wells

Does this "high yellow" trait occur in normals, or just in the albino morphs?
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Joe

Like the one pictured- just the albinos. If you look the bright yellow is what should be black. If they were normal I suppose you might be able to see a slightly different shade of black. Just a guess, but probably it would be so slight you wouldn't notice.
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

Nathan - I love that snake. Do you have any moody line males to pair her up with?

Dave
DNS Reptiles

Thanks, she is a really nice snake. I actually have a male that looks just like her from the same line but is almost twice her size. I have produced offspring from this particular pair over the last 4 years now. These were the animals I had told you about, the ones that produce babies that have the thin bright yellow bands within the triads.
Nathan

They are sweet. Are they the parents of that 04 female I got from you?

Dave
DNS Reptiles