Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been wrestling with this issue. I'd like to add a new male to my long-term 1.2 group of Guyana redtail boas. But I dare not because I can't determine a safe quarantine period from the (so far) available info on IBD. I mean, if it can hide in boas for up to 2 years-or, who knows,more-how long until a new animal is "safe"?

I have no idea what you boa people are doing when it comes to adding new blood to your collections. What a nightmare.

Brad Chambers

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Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

I can tell you from a person that has been there about 18 years ago. I buy little and always quarantine for 6 months to a year. Roger Klingenberg developed a blood test that will not give you a false positive, but can give you a false negative. Another way to tell for sure is to put a young BP in with your new boa. The balls do not survive but for a month if they get it.

Think is a virus we know very little about, mainly because its fairly new and also due to the fact boid keepers who have deaths often do not investigate them or discuss there findings?
think is important to focus on what we do know? it does not persist in the enviorment for long, its is spread by the devils that are snake mites, otherwise by direct contact animal to animal or faecal.
we can be fairly sure there is more than one strain or type?

and I am sure there are snakes that are carriers and never show any signs?

The future is to Quarentine animals for 6mths and during this time treat them for mites, and if they show any signs consider further investigation, biopsy? blood test? both of which are not perfect?
Just a thought but if we all made a real effort to stop the spread of snake mites this would be a big improvement?
I always Frontine any new snakes weekly for three weeks during the Quaraentine period?

its a really worrying but intresting subjuct and I am glad its being discussed!

I would not consider this a new disease. It has been recognized as a disease syndrome for over thirty years, but isolations of the etiologic agents was accomplished only in the decade. This retro-virus does not survive will outside the body and transmission appears to be from direct contact with the carriers or their body fluids. Yes, mites are generally responsible for the spread of this disease through entire collections. However the exchange of body fluids from fecal contamination, nasal and salivary secretions along with sex are also contributing factors of the spread of this disease. Because IBD can lie dormant in boas for months or even years. Is evidence that boas are the natural host of this virus and precautions and quarantine are important.
As I said before there has been work on a blood test developed and can be made available if the economic viability of such a test were warranted. We need to make is known we want this test. Once developed, snakes could be tested with a simple blood test and we could stop this deadly disease.

Looks to me like the "ball python cagemate" test is really the only option, at present, if you want to add a boa to your collection!
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Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

I have used the bp cage mate before when I can not stand the wait. I learned this from Roger Klingenberg DVM. You can also consider buying your new boa form someone that has both boas and ball pythons. A small mite attack could wipe out hundreds of thousands of dollars of animals if they had IBD.

>>This retro-virus does not survive will outside the body and transmission appears to be from direct contact with the carriers or their body fluids.
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Could you share with me where you got this info? I know someone who practices one of the strictest quarantines I ever heard of, and he managed to lose his collection from one infected animal in quarantine. No possibility of direct contact with fecal matter, or body fluids, or the animals themselves. I mean kept in a different building type quarantine. But it got to his other animals somehow. I'd like to know more if you have the info.

As far as quarantine goes. I actually rent a spare room from a friend for a small amount each month I need it. It keeps them far away from my collection. I also have blood work done every 3 months in quarantine looking for signs the internals are working right, and have a buffy coat done as well. It costs a bit, but replacing a collection costs much more, and I have peace of mind knowing I did what I could.

Most importantly...I don't rush to buy anything. I look into the people I'm buying from, and the history of the animals and their parentage. Buy from reputable trustworthy people.

And I take exception to the Ball Python Idea. Who says the Ball Python deserves to die a horrible death should an animal prove infected? That's gotta be one of the worst things I've read on this site. People with an attitude like that shouldn't have any animals at all.
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Richard Carew
Sunset BCI
You laugh at me cuz I'm different! I laugh at you cuz you're all the same.
Stop Inhumane and Illegal Practices

It is hard to say where and why your friend got IBD from, and I hope he put his collection down and did not sell it off claiming it to be healthy. This is one of the most morally incomprehensible act someone can do. It is hard to say that his newest accusation was the cuprite

I have heard of a boa at one of the collages that has IBD, and has shown no signs of the disease for over 15 years. I believe that stress brings predisposed boas to active cases of this disease. For instance the cooling for breeding or the shipping for an animal. These stressing factors weaken the immune system and bring on aliments like respiratory disease, regurgitation, and neurological problems.

Yes I do agree with you that the bp method is a less conventional method to detect the presence of this virus. But we have used mice, rats and even cats and dogs to test drugs, diseases, cancer and they have proven to have a positive outcome for all of us. Oh they have also been used to test makeup. A single ball python is a life but can save 100's of animals in someone’s collection. Until we push to get this blood test to market we are left in the dark when we purchase a boa.

This and above post from me come from the indirect and direct correspondences I have had with:
Dr Roger Klingenberg DVM
Dr. Elliott Jacobson, Florida State Universities Veterinary School
Dr. Dale Denardo, Berkeley
And of course my own life experiences and work.

As I stated, He "lost his entire collection",(euthanized) due to one animal in quarantine. That to me suggests an alternate method of transmission. It was not through any of the contact methods.

I'm not a novice, I've been keeping Boas since 1975. I wouldn't consider someone a friend who would sell IBD infected snakes. I know exactly how serious it is, as does my friend.

I still say suffering a BP to a painful, agonizing death is not right. Research is one thing, doing it to prove another animal is clean or not is just plain cruel, and inhumane. No better than fighting bulldogs IMO.
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Richard Carew
Sunset BCI
You laugh at me cuz I'm different! I laugh at you cuz you're all the same.
Stop Inhumane and Illegal Practices

The thing is, other than this one anecdotal report, I've never heard any of the authorities on this illness suggest that it might be transmitted either by airborne or casual contact. Most if not all other indications are that close, extended contact or mites are necessary for transmission.

If this were true, a lot more collections would have been lost by now!
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Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

Why is this not brought up more often in IBD threads ?
Not the first time its ever been posted on this forum.
Its LONG OVER DUE,that people understand their husbandry practices IN DEED have a play in this disease !!

>>I have heard of a boa at one of the collages that has IBD, and has shown no signs of the disease for over 15 years. I believe that stress brings predisposed boas to active cases of this disease. For instance the cooling for breeding or the shipping for an animal. These stressing factors weaken the immune system and bring on aliments like respiratory disease, regurgitation, and neurological problems.
>>

Ill agree with this as well.
Excellent post.

.
>>Yes I do agree with you that the bp method is a less conventional method to detect the presence of this virus. But we have used mice, rats and even cats and dogs to test drugs, diseases, cancer and they have proven to have a positive outcome for all of us. Oh they have also been used to test makeup. A single ball python is a life but can save 100's of animals in someone’s collection. Until we push to get this blood test to market we are left in the dark when we purchase a boa.
>>
>>This and above post from me come from the indirect and direct correspondences I have had with:
>>Dr Roger Klingenberg DVM
>>Dr. Elliott Jacobson, Florida State Universities Veterinary School
>>Dr. Dale Denardo, Berkeley
>>And of course my own life experiences and work.
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TnK

I agree with the contagions and communicability statements [of fact] here.
Thank you.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

I hope for the blood test for this virus!

The ball python "death test" is all a bit strange and inconclusive? As this virus in the Quarantine boa my not be being shed all the time? are we going to all keep a ball python in will all our boas? what if the ball has OPMV ........................ need learn more?

We have know about IBD for years, but we still know very little? more than one type is sure to be worked out and somepoint?
Non Boids as carriers?

think need to makesure all these "cases" are confirmed on post mortem examination histological examination of the brain?