Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Issue 1:
Wild mice or rats are chewing into my mouse bins! I use large cat litter pans in a rack. I have a few traps set out but they are too smart to fall for them... How can I keep this from happening - oh, the racks are in the garage.
Issue 2:
This one may take a bit of time...
What is the difference between the two most common breeding techniques? Continuous and Cycle. Which is best for productivity?
Thanks you for your help and Happy Holidays from Blue's Bayou!

i had that promblem a few months ago where something most likely a mouse or rat was eating the rat food that was in the food hopers so i went and got a nice size rat trap and the next day or so it was upside down the trap. it went off and though i didnt catch the ##cker it did injure it cause there was some type of liquid near the but not blood? but i never had that happen again so far!! also you can go to home depot and get a animal trap and put that as close as you can to the rat tubs and something tasty for them and im sure it will be hard for them to resist. p.s i forgot to mention that i had put a small rat food block on the trap but any food should do the trick. what part of the u.s do you live in to be able to house rats in a garage?

I keep my rats inside, so as for the first issue, I got nothin'.

I'm not so good at explainin' stuff, but here goes.
I cycle breed.
I have a large number of 'maternity wards' and a couple 'breeding tanks'.
The breeding tanks have the only males, and once the females get chubby from babies they get taken out of the breeding tanks, and put (in pairs of females.) in their own 'maternity ward' where they will raise the babies together.
Once the females pop the babies out, raise them to the appropriate size, then get a week or 2 of rest, they get put back in the breeding tank. This helps them put the weight back on that they lost during pregnancy and nursing the babies.
This is pretty efficient, as you don't need that many males, and the yield of babies is good, as big babies and small babies don't get mixed together much and the big ones won't let the little ones get any food, and the little ones die off. I harvest they before this happens anyway, but I digress.

The other way is to just put a certain number of females and a male together in a big cage, and let them do their thing. There are a few advantages, and disadvantages. First, the females are pretty much always pregnant, so if you need babies more than a week or two old, the momma rats will get skinny from nursing and being pregnant at the same time. Also, the cage will get dirty fast, as momma rats nursing and pregnant at the same time will power eat and power drink to try to keep weight on. With a few litters at once going on, it may be difficult to keep them all sorted out, and one momma will usually have an excessive workload. You have to harvest some of her babies right away, as if you don't they will die. Also, routine cage cleaning may not be easy to time with 4 litters at once going on. But you can go from nothing to having hundreds of rat pups in a matter of days. Since the momma rats are pretty much always pregnant, you will prolly have more babies with this method, but it is higher maintenance, and the diet is more demanding. I personally don't need this many babies, but if you need hundreds of rats a week and don't have a lot of space, this may do the trick.

Awsome explination - I'm not too bright so it worked out well! I think I am going to switch over to cyle breeding as I already have a rack and I have tanks that I'm not useing.
On the wild rodent issue - I have three types of traps set up, the snap type, the box type and the electric zapper (oh, how I wish to see that one work!!)I have them baited with chunky penut butter and still nothing (my son did get his hand stuck in the box type..)I also have a few glue traps out. This has been going on for about a month now and Ithink I am going to have to resort to poison baits...

>>Issue 1:
>>Wild mice or rats are chewing into my mouse bins! I use large cat litter pans in a rack. I have a few traps set out but they are too smart to fall for them... How can I keep this from happening - oh, the racks are in the garage.
>>Issue 2:
>>This one may take a bit of time...
>>What is the difference between the two most common breeding techniques? Continuous and Cycle. Which is best for productivity?
>>Thanks you for your help and Happy Holidays from Blue's Bayou!

Issue one is the sucky part of outside. The best you can do is to vermin proof your garage. Traps will only work for a short while and then they stop using them. Good luck.

The two techniques are preferences. I think some of us sat down with data a year or so ago and came up with the conclusion that the number of litters raised by any given female using either method was about 6 . Size of litters and growth of pups was a factor of care and genetics.

I keep mine continuous, but tend to move the males around to keep their interests. Each group always has a male . I retire breeders after 5 or so litters and they are sold as jumbo fat things usually at 7 or 8 months. I don' t have issues of skinny pups or smaller litters.....again, I think this is largely influenced by genetics and care.

I find that continuous takes up less space. Once you start separating and all that you have a madhouse of smaller cages that are a PITA to keep up with. I have larger 18X18X24 cages with 1.4 or 1.5 in and a wheel. So I can get 20-30 pups out of a cage a month.....from pinks to weaned.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

I try to solve the wild rodent problem with a 5 foot black rat snake who lives "free range" in the rodent room. Unfortunatly he shuts down in the winter which is when the worst infestation occurs but he is a happy rat snake in the summer between the natural incursions of Deer Mice and the occasional escapee. He also likes to try and get into the breeding racks so one has to make sure they are contained. Not sure if he gives the rodents nightmares or not... One thing I cant figure is...if the snake cant get out...how the heck do the Deer mice get in? Mayby he just hasnt wanted out yet?

I wouldnt mind if the little beggars just ate a bit but they seem intent on carrying off all the kibbles they can to store for a rainy day. My walls are probably insulated with dog kibble.
They also have an extremly aggravating tendancy to gnaw holes in my vinyl water lines. They havn't hit on the tub gnawing idea yet.

Peter
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Peter and Sara
Beouf River Reptiles

Thanks for the replies.
Sonya, so far I have a 4 tub rack that i keep all the rats and my ASF in. I have a few 40 tall tanks and a load of 20 longs all with stands so I space isn't realy an issue, I can use the rack for the nursery. My other issue would be, how does every one get so many babies??? I haven't had any litters for about 2 months, I thought my collony shut down for the winter...
On the black rats thing - I do get a few greenish rats (I'm in SE NC) every once in a while out there but all the black rats are inside with me . I think I am going to find the mother of all greenish next spring and just let it free roam out there. i just have to remember to leave water out!
I keep all food in a 5 gal bucket. I have chews on the lid but they haven't gotten in yet. I bought poison already but I just can't bring myself to put it out yet.
I will keep you posted! If anyone have any more ideas let me know. :>
Blue

Maybe they're too cold, I hear people that keep them outside in garages and unheated sheds get poor head counts during the winter months.
If your females are more than 6 months old, they may need to be retired.
My freezer is so full right now that I don't have any room for human food, only rats, whisky, and ice.
It's ok, the frozen ones don't eat much, but sometimes the ice tastes funny. I just add more whisky to my drink and all is well...

>>Thanks for the replies.
>>Sonya, so far I have a 4 tub rack that i keep all the rats and my ASF in. I have a few 40 tall tanks and a load of 20 longs all with stands so I space isn't realy an issue, I can use the rack for the nursery. My other issue would be, how does every one get so many babies??? I haven't had any litters for about 2 months, I thought my collony shut down for the winter...
>> On the black rats thing - I do get a few greenish rats (I'm in SE NC) every once in a while out there but all the black rats are inside with me . I think I am going to find the mother of all greenish next spring and just let it free roam out there. i just have to remember to leave water out!
>>I keep all food in a 5 gal bucket. I have chews on the lid but they haven't gotten in yet. I bought poison already but I just can't bring myself to put it out yet.
>>I will keep you posted! If anyone have any more ideas let me know. :>
>>Blue

I hate poison for many reasons. It is very handy and we use it at work ( a pet store) but the fact that the rodents die and stink in inaccessible places, or crawl out and die in front of customers (happened twice!), that and they are available for the cats, dogs or snakes to eat and get poisoned also and that it is down and available for animals I may not want to poison is all reasons I don't use it. Something for you to think....your greenish rats get a poisoned rat they too get it.

Farmer's trick....keep your feed in METAL cans.

I am a little envious that your garage isn't too cold for herps. Mine is fine for the rabbits and pigeons. Upstate NY.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

I was thinking about going to a metal pail soon. I just finished moving everyone around. I have two 40gal tall tanks with pine shavings and 1.2 rats in it, the third 40 gal has one of my older males in it. He was with two younger females and I think they were driving him nuts so I am going to let him have a night by himself. I only have 1 pair of mice left! An intuder got into their cage last night and they ganged up on it. It was a wee tiny field mouse...I think... I have them in a 10 gal now. Ablut an hour after they got put in there the male mouse tried to wreastle with the girl mouse... as my 6 year old was looking at them to name them... ah, the circle of life...
As for the whiskey, I am reduced to cheap beer because my wife is gravid and I can only drink it in the garage.
and Sonya.... it's raining here now... oh, and 70...hehe.

>>I was thinking about going to a metal pail soon. I just finished moving everyone around. I have two 40gal tall tanks with pine shavings and 1.2 rats in it, the third 40 gal has one of my older males in it. He was with two younger females and I think they were driving him nuts so I am going to let him have a night by himself. I only have 1 pair of mice left! An intuder got into their cage last night and they ganged up on it. It was a wee tiny field mouse...I think... I have them in a 10 gal now. Ablut an hour after they got put in there the male mouse tried to wreastle with the girl mouse... as my 6 year old was looking at them to name them... ah, the circle of life...
>>As for the whiskey, I am reduced to cheap beer because my wife is gravid and I can only drink it in the garage.
>> and Sonya.... it's raining here now... oh, and 70...hehe.

I have a couple 20 long tanks that I put rats in at 1.3
I would think you could do more with the 40 gal if you wanted.
As to the weather....it's raining here and 40....but it is going down to the 20s tomorrow (as it should this time of year since the rain is washing away the foot of snow on the ground and making mud!) we will have rain and 70s in May or so
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

We cycle breed, and I find I get the largest litters and feeders this way. We have everyone on a schedule of 3 weeks with the male, 4 weeks with pups, then 4 weeks resting.

It can be cut down to 3 weeks of rest, but I like to keep my girls plump. I find I get some very healthy 3-4 week rats to feed off (consistently 65 grams at 3 weeks, 85 at 4 weeks) . I don't like to do continuous breeding. I weigh my animals, and they lose quite a bit of weight when nursing. Female rats in the wild rarely have multiple litters a year, their bodies aren't meant to handle that, but they will try to if in with a male. www.ratbehaivor.com

Also, every female gets her own tub. I find that when they are by themselves, they aren't as stressed, and can devote more time to the care of the pups instead of stressing over another female being in her space.

For African Soft Furs, I have only heard of harem breeding because the males are so involved in the raising of the pups, and everyone seems to benefit from a very close social group. From what I have heard it is okay to keep ASF together all the time, and if you pull the male out, there could be problems with the reintroduction.

>>We cycle breed, and I find I get the largest litters and feeders this way. We have everyone on a schedule of 3 weeks with the male, 4 weeks with pups, then 4 weeks resting.
>>
>>It can be cut down to 3 weeks of rest, but I like to keep my girls plump. I find I get some very healthy 3-4 week rats to feed off (consistently 65 grams at 3 weeks, 85 at 4 weeks) . I don't like to do continuous breeding. I weigh my animals, and they lose quite a bit of weight when nursing. Female rats in the wild rarely have multiple litters a year, their bodies aren't meant to handle that, but they will try to if in with a male. www.ratbehaivor.com

I have to say that I continuous breed and have the same or better stats and weights. So I really don't see the difference. Genetics affects all this more. The only reason continuous would be less productive is if you are under feeding.
Wild rats breed according to their environment. If rats in the wild have a reliable and healthy food source they reproduce like fleas. The limit for wild rats is food availability.

>>
>>Also, every female gets her own tub. I find that when they are by themselves, they aren't as stressed, and can devote more time to the care of the pups instead of stressing over another female being in her space.
>>

If they are decent moms they are gonna be fine with a group. The only time they are gonna stress is if the grouping is already not settled and bickering. First day of a new litter and they may hog the pups but after that they pile them up and communally nurse.

Personally after doing this for many years I think you do what works well for you and the rats will adapt and adjust.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

Like I said, this is what works for us. I cycle breed, wasn't knocking anything. I find it works great for me and my breeders to give them a break. :/

But I have to ask, how old are they after 5 litters?

I would hope to consistently get female breeders to the 2 year mark for age with my method, if not more. But my rats are also my pets, so it means more to me to have them take a break after a litter. I don't mind having the buggers around.

Alrighty, thanks so far for the info! I am sure others can use this thread also.
This is what I am doing right now. I have 3 40gals set up w/ 1.2 in a tank. So far I like it and it seems to be keeping the wild guys at bay for right now. I have 2 10gals set up w/ 1.4 mice in each. I am going to cycle breed the rats as I already have a tub rack built for both a nursery and grow outs (I have a bigger need for different size rats than mice of which I only need pinks and fuzzys) and I am going to continuous breed the mice as I will be plucking out the pinks as they reach the sizes I need.
Now, littleindiangirl, on the ASF, I have a decent colony going right now, the sexes I think are 2.2 in each tub and they are doing good weight wise but I have only had one litter from them in 6 months...what am I doing wrong there? They are in a tub rack.

>Now, littleindiangirl, on the ASF, I have a decent colony going right now, the sexes I think are 2.2 in each tub and they are doing good weight wise but I have only had one litter from them in 6 months...what am I doing wrong there? They are in a tub rack.

That is surprising! I have no first and knowledge on keeping them, but I do browse the forums once in a while. I plan on getting ASF for the future, so I've been lurking. Check out this forum, I hope that it can lead you in the right direction. ~C
ASF forums

>>But I have to ask, how old are they after 5 litters?
>>
>>I would hope to consistently get female breeders to the 2 year mark for age with my method, if not more. But my rats are also my pets, so it means more to me to have them take a break after a litter. I don't mind having the buggers around.

I get that from my girls before they hit a year. Usually I won't breed them the first time til they are 10-12 weeks old, depending on their own growth. I have a few as pets but most of the 50 plus breeding adults I have are just that, breeders for feeders. I cull them as feeders themselves. None of my females get notable thin from raising litters and I have (just did some weighing to confirm this) litters that were 45-50 grams at 2.5 wks and another litter 85-95 grams at 3.5 wks. By the time they wean they are triple digits, so no one is starving or worn out here.

As pets I have had them easily get to two and many to three, again, depending on the line. One of my customers just came in to buy new babies as her three passed this last fall all getting past 4 yrs. I don't know HOW she did it but she had all their info from the day she took them home and assured me they were that old. They passed of basic old age, not tumors and cancer. I thought that was cool. Considering when I started with rats in the 70s it was easy to get them to 4 or 5yrs I miss having that since all the myco and weaknesses.

I think which why you use to breed them really depends on what works for you. As I say, the rats adapt.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

Sonya,
Neat-o! You were produceing rats and mice when around the time born!