Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Below are some questions that Mr. Corley ask in a post below, that I thought I would bring up to the top of the page for all of us to look over.
John

1) What traits seem to be the most heritable? Examples of traits include pattern (phase), background color, saddle color, saturation of colors, saddle or band thickness/shape, feeding response, growth rate, temperament/nervousness, adult size, and clutch size.

2) What sexual dimorphism is evident in your thayeri?

3) On average, which gender grows larger? grows faster?

4) keeps juvenile colors better?

5) is calmer? etc.

6) How cool (temperature, not appearance) do male thayeri need to get in order to optimize fertility?

Please, folks - Mr. Corley is my father - LOL. Just call me Tom.

I have heard from several sources that female thayeri are much more likely than males to develop speckling and/or darkening of their scales as the grow. I have an '06 yellow leonis female that has changed considerably already and looks like she was dipped in gray, muddy water. She's still a cool snake and plan to use her as a breeder in the future.

Which raises another question. If I wanted to select for animals that maintain a lot of their juvenile coloration, would it be a mistake to include her in my breeding program? Or, alternatively, should I expect that her offspring will include individuals that do not share her tendency to muddy-up as an adult?

I await the wisdom of you experienced folks . . .

She is a very nice female, I have found that usually but not always the females do tend to get mudder than the males. but only when compairing them to others out of the same clutch.
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Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

Tom,

I have observed a similar change as well with on of my females...She started out as a clean beige/tan but is now a speckled gray/green. She's a keeper!

Also, she (and another male) grew at a much faster rate than 4 others from the same breeder (she was unrelated to the other 4) and all were hatched in the same month...

She (and another male-from a different breeder) were 90 plus grams while the other 4 were in the 70 plus gram range...

As juveniles, she (and another male) had larger heads...and thus made the progression to larger food items quicker than the others...

Just an observation...

Later,
Jim.

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CSRAJim

Now that you mention it, Jim, I too have noticed that my most enthusiastic feeders tend to be the individuals with relatively larger heads (with a more distinct neck). My pickiest eaters have relatively smaller heads and less distinct necks.

Since hatchlings/young juveniles that are fussy eaters can be challenging for thayeri breeders, I wonder what others might have observed.

I have also heard that some breeding lines are known for robust feeding responses (on pinkies), which suggests that a strong feeding response is heritable.

BTW, the yellow male (from Bob Hansen) pictured below is much more greenish-yellow in natural light -- very striking. I especially like his slightly split saddles and the perfect circular marking on the nape of his neck. He's a consistent eater but prefers to chow down in the privacy of his hide.

Tom C.

Here are my personal thoughts on these questions.

1) What traits seem to be the most heritable? Examples of traits include pattern (phase), background color, saddle color, saturation of colors, saddle or band thickness/shape, feeding response, growth rate, temperament/nervousness, adult size, and clutch size.

I find leonis to leonis and I get more leonis and with the Applegate animals i only throw leonis when bred together. Background color they mainly throw differant shades of orange. Now when I cross a msp with a leonis usually the msp's are dominant with a few intermediates.
I think the thin bands are heritable. As far as growth rate I haven't found a differance as some in each clutch just out grow others.

2) What sexual dimorphism is evident in your thayeri?

Usually the brighter cleaner colors out of the clutch are males, in my opinion.

3) On average, which gender grows larger? grows faster?

I have noticed my females out grow my males.

4) keeps juvenile colors better?

The males.

5) is calmer? etc.

I haven't noticed a differance between male or female. But the more line bred animals in my opinion are a little more skiddish.

6) How cool (temperature, not appearance) do male thayeri need to get in order to optimize fertility?

I say around 55 to 60 but have had some success with temps being a little higher.

Merry Christmas,

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Michelle
All things bright and beautiful,
All creatures great and small,
All things wise and wonderful:
The Lord God made them all.

Michelle,

I am in general agreement with your responses except...

"3) On average, which gender grows larger? grows faster? I have noticed my females out grow my males."

My observation is opposite of this. All of my finicky feeders are female except for one male. This observation was more pronounced this year with the "strange" fall weather over here this year (wide temperature range-sometimes as much a 30 degrees F).

Later,
Jim.

PS: She is more orange in life than the photos I sent to you today...Oh yeah, you already know that...You produced her! Ha! Ha!

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CSRAJim

Ahhh!!! That picture drives me nuts!!! You should send it here so my sanity may return.
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Aubrey Ross

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