Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Both of my burmese pythons have mites, and I have no idea how they got them. That's why I'm asking for help. They're already being treated for the problem, but I'd still like to know the source to prevent it from happening again.

Snakes are in seperate cages that are across the room from each other. I don't use mulch or anything as bedding, I use newspaper or simular. They are fed only frozen/thawed rodents although I do have live rodents in the house. I haven't added any new cage items any time recently. I have no other snakes in the house nor do have I been around any other snakes in the past few months.
Because of all this, I can't figure out why they have gotten them. When I've asked other people why they thought they had mites, without mentioning all this, I'm told:

1.because you're feeding them live food (but I'm not)
2.they come in with bedding (but I don't use anything but paper)
3.that a new peice of cage furniture brought them (but no new)
4.that I must have brought it to them from another snake (but it's impossible)
ETC. ETC.

Please help, 'cause I'm about to lose my mind trying to figure out where these little suckers came from.
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~Sara~
"If you look down on me, I am evil, If you look up to me, I am God, if you look straight at me, I Am you"
-Charles Manson

You didn't mention how long ago you had a mite problem or what you are using to rid them. Maybe the eggs can lay dormant for a period of time. We had a mite problem about 1 1/2 years ago. We tried several things (to include bugs that would eat the mites), nothing worked until we pulled all the carpet in the snake room and threw away all the newspaper we had stored in the room.

The way I understand it, reptile mites won't feed on mammals and mammal mites won't feed on reptiles, so the food shouldn't be a source.

Hope this helps,
Randy
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

OMFG! I just went out to water all my girls and 2 of them have mites!!!

I am in the same boat as you!!
We have lived in this house since june/july.
We have not had mites here.
Old house, we had mites... about 4 months before we moved....

I have brought in one new snake recently- last night and she's in the house on quarantine (and to be shown off) and she certainly didn't have mites- they guy i bought her from is reputable and theres no way that there are that many mites in one day...

HELP! i think we both need to know where they come from... i don't think that the eggs will lay dormant for 10 months... then hatch but i could be wrong- that just seems crazy to me....

thanks
beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

Where do mites come from? Well, to put that question in the right perspective let me ask this: "What came first, the chicken or the egg? And where did it come from?"

Of course, that's in the "origin of existence" sense, but how we end up with mites on our snakes is just about as complicated, in-depth. One thing for sure, we know there's not a Mite Fairy runnin' around, even though sometimes it seems like it. I coulda sworn I saw one sneakin' out the door a few years ago, the last time I had a mite infestation.

Sara, the 4 possibilities you were given by others are the typical ways mites get transferred. "Transferred" is a keyword since we know they don't just appear out of thin air.

Mites are "host-specific," meaning that mites that feed on rats don't feed on snakes. However, a rat can be a carrier of snake mites. The mites could end up on a rat looking for a host (something to feed & live on). I know you use F/T, which will kill mites if frozen long enough, I'm just using live rodents as an example of how mites get transferred.

Just for a few examples, the same transfer process can happen with bedding, cage furniture (especially an untreated limb from the yard or woods), by humans handling infested snakes, and, from newly acquired snakes. Plus other ways.

The mite infestation I had a few years ago came from firewood. I kept a small stack within a few feet of a cage & that was all it took to create Miteville.

Generally, it takes aproximately 2 weeks or more before mites are noticed, meaning that once you realize you've got a mite problem, the situation has been going on for at least 2 weeks.

The lifecycle of mites is the same as fleas and you have to get rid of them same way. You have to break their lifecycle. A mite's lifecycle is completed in about 2 weeks. They lay eggs, eggs go through metamorphosis, morph into adult mite & 2 weeks later they're laying eggs, too. Many, many eggs.

Mites hide underneath a snake's scales. Yeah, you can usually see them crawling around the snake's eyes or under their chin but just because you don't see them by looking at the snake's surface doesn't mean they're not under the scales. It only takes a few under the scales to lay hundreds of eggs and create an infestation.

Beth, if you've only had your newest snake for a day or so, your mite infestation didn't come from it unless it was covered in mites, which I'm sure it wasn't or else you'd have noticed that many.

Mites and/or their eggs can get transferred by the keeper without ever knowing it. Like I said, it only takes a few and the eggs are a little sticky (It's called "survival." Ensuring their spread).

Stacks of old newpaper used for substrate is an acceptable place for mites to lay their eggs.

You have to be very thorough to get rid of them, just like you do with fleas. I got rid of mine quickly with nothing more than my typical cleaning solution of 5% bleach & 95% water. When wiping the bottom of the cage you have to wipe up all the eggs, not just wipe down the cage floor. I gradually turn my papertowels up as I wipe, to scoop up the eggs.

Ya'll don't beat yourself up about it, welcome to the club. It happens. Now, if I go check all my snakes and find mites, I'm gonna come back here & blast you, Sara, for spreading them, you already gave 'em to Beth. You don't have to share EVERYTHING, ya know. Ha! Ha! Ha!

Ya'll have a great day & a Merry Christmas!!!
Mike
(HH)
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

lol... maybe Sara is the mite fairy....

My biggest problem is that the cages the big girls are in are made with plywood.... They're huge.... I can clean them thouroghly but... damn.... its wood... all the cracks are sealed with caulk but they can get into the wood....

Should i just spray it down with a bleach mix and let it sit? (i have other cages i can put the girls in until they are gone... and then bleach those cages too)

Should i just soak the wood with reptile relief and hope that works? I spray with my dishsoap, then spray a rinse and wipe with towels, and put a few extra clamp lights inside so it will dry faster... Think i should do that and then spray it down good with reptile relief and let that dry?

thanks!
Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

Snake mites can't actually bore into wood. They hide on the surface or under the bark of limbs, firewood, etc...

Rough surfaces make it harder to get all the eggs out while wiping. In cages that have rough surfaces "Provent-A-Mite" is probably the best to use. In fact, from what I hear it's the best to use in any situation. They say it's good, works great.

If your plywood hasn't been sealed to prevent it from absorbing moisture you would just need to let a bleach solution air out a bit longer. The bleach kills adult mites on contact, but not the eggs. That's why so many people have trouble getting rid of mites, they don't take extra care to remove the eggs.

I used the "Relief" stuff once, on a snake, to view the results. I've still got the rest of the bottle layin' around here somewhere. While it did seem to kill most of the visible mites I could still see a few unaffected ones. Anything safe enough to put on the snake has to be somewhat weak, if you know what I mean.

The only difference between cleaning a cage with mites & a regular cleaning is the special care needed to wipe up all the eggs.

Just to make sure we're all on the same page (many people reading in the backgorund), when I use a bleach solution I spray the cage & then wipe up the liquid until it's dry. Then I do the same thing, using plain water instead. I keep rinsing with plain water until there's no more fumes. In your case, I would probably bleach & then rinse twice. Then use lights, fans, etc, to speed up dry time.

Beth, if I were you, as a rescue organization, I'd order a can or two of Provent-A-Mite to keep on hand. You'll have to search on Google, or somewhere else, to find out where to get it. Seems like just a month or so ago someone was saying that it can only be ordered from the dealer/mfg.

Take care & hang in there!
Mike
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

When we had our mite infestation about a year and a half ago, I did quite a bit of research on Provent-A-Mite (PAM). With the amount of cages that needed to be treated, it was going to cost a small fortune. I had heard others recommend using Equate Bedding Spray, compared the active ingredients of the two and turns out they are identical. Equate is the Wal-Mart brand and can be found in the lice treatment section of the store. The cost is significantly less than PAM and works just as effectively. In one treatment we were done and I had already tried many other methods, as Randy indicated on the other post. We pulled up all the carpet, cleaned out all forms of bedding (newspaper, aspen, etc)and started fresh with everyone on newspaper. I haven't had any other problems since. As a precaution, all new animals get a treatment before they enter our facility. This way we don't have a huge battle on our hands.

When using Equate, it is the same as using the PAM, remove all animals and water sources from the area to be treated. Spray on entire surface of enclosure/cage, put down newspaper and lightly spray it as well. Let dry for at least 30 minutes to an hour and replace animal. I put the water bowl back in the next day. If this process is not done properly, there is a chance in harming your animals whether you use PAM or Equate. It is recommended to do a second treatment after two weeks. We took our chances and were lucky enough not to have further issues. As a precaution to new owners, we treat animals that are sold prior to shipment, just to be sure we are not sending any unexpected critters to a customer.

Good luck to you.

Michelle
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

Good post, Michelle.

I've heard about using the Equate bedding spray from a few people here & there but never from anyone I knew well enough to trust their judgment, up until now, that is.

There's one more thing I'd like to add to "getting rid of mites." Mites drown easily, although it's possible for a few mites that are under the scales to be in an air pocket. Since I used a bleach solution, which doesn't leave any residuals, I used to place a water bowl large enough for the snake to get into in their cage and they would soak themselves. HOWEVER, it may not be wise to do so if using residual treatments like the Equate bedding spray, Provent-A-Mite, etc... Maybe Michelle or Randy can advise us on it.

Have a great day!
Mike
(HH)
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

I just want to make it clear that I am not a veteranian nor a chemist and the information that I am supplying to everyone is based off personal research and first hand use knowledge.

After having the question posed if it would be safe to have a waterbowl large enough that a snake could soak in and then subsequently drink from, I did a little more research. The information that I was able to find made it sound like Permethrin, which is the active ingredient in PAM and Equate bedding spray, would become "water-proof" or would not be reactivated by water after it has completely dried. It is also effective for at least 6 weeks, if not longer.

http://www.bitesandstingsonline.com/repellent.htm?source=overture&OVRAW=permethrin&OVKEY=permethrin&OVMTC=standard&OVADID=1970738022&OVKWID=18098902522

I also found a link to one of the big breeders whom I have a lot of respect for. Ralph Davis wrote a page discussing both Provent A-Mite and Black Knight. After reading his thoughts on the two products, I contacted him by phone to ask him if he knew anything about the reactivation by water dilema. He also feels that it is not reactivated. If you would like to read what he wrote, I provided the link to his website, with his permission.

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/matrix/ralphs_words/black_knight.asp

When we treated for mites, I put the same waterbowl the snakes had back in with them. At the time, we had close to 50 snakes and not one of them showed any negative effects. So going back to my personal knowledge, I would feel completely comfortable putting a bowl large enough for the animal to be able to soak in and then drink from but ONLY after the product is completely dry. This is why I waited until the next day to return the water bowl.

I hope this helps.

Michelle
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

Good job!

I honestly didn't mean to put you on the spot, I just figured since you were more familiar with the product that you were in a better position to know.

I appreciate your diligence to post accurate information and assure you that it wasn't in vain. Thank you!

Take care!
Mike
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

I didn't feel like you called me out. I do feel like this is very important information to have. I would hate to have someone follow my advice and have them come back to tell me that their animal died. This additional information benefits not only me, but the whole reptile community.

Having a medical background, these are the types of things that interest me. The more we can learn and share with others makes us all a little better equiped to take care of our charges.

Take care.

Michelle
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

facinating.... Who'd a thought mites... and lice... It makes sense but still... facinating...

I did look at the PAM... and yha... small fortune...
I have in the past used frontline *gasp* i know... came highly recommended by more than one... (4 total) vets but it does still bother me... so I don't use it any more...

I will grab several cans of the bedding spray... I'm sure the cashier with scratch when I leave.... lol... makes me itch just thinking about it.

I will get PAM with our tax return... we dedicate about 2,000$ of our tax return to getting new cages, supplies, etc... for the rescue every year.... We are going to change the inside of our cages- get something smooth and sealed... we have one sheet already and for the life of me i dont know what its called... the rough surface is just too hard to clean...

Thanks!! I'll re-post and let you know how the bedding spray goes...

Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

I used Equate bedding spray when I first got my Burm (complete with mites) because PAM was nowhere to be found locally and I didn't want to wait for delivery. I did speak with the developer of PAM over the phone and he is an excellent source of information.

If you look at the list of ingredients on the two cans, they appear to be the same. The difference between the type of Permethrins used is a matter of chemistry. In chemistry, chemicals can be oriented to the left or the right, like a mirror image. They are the same, but different. The type used in PAM has undergone extensive research for use on herps and is the only product approved by the USDA for use on herps. I imagine the difference in cost is a result of the research involved in the PAM product, and the fact the Pro Products is a smaller company than Wal-Mart.

I don't have a real message here, just thought it was interesting info to pass along. One tip that the PAM guy passed along that I thought was interesting, he said to spray a 2ft radius around the cage on the floor for mites that will try to travel. You can also spray some on a rag or paper towel and wipe it along the outside rim of other cages to make a barrier.