Reptile & Amphibian Forums

How large an enclosure would I need to house 4 adult corns? Thanks.

Whatever the size, you will need four different enclosures, one for each snake.

Some breeders keep their animals in large sweater boxes, and those of us with snakes as pets keep them in 20 (gallon long) or larger.

Expect to see many responses telling you the same: do not keep more than one cornsnake in a cage.

Snakes do best when kept in seperate enclosures. They are solitary by nature.

As a minimum size, I recommend a cage 2/3's by 1/3 of the snake's length.

For example, I'd keep a 3 foot corn snake in a cage with floor space of 2 feet by 1 foot.

Tim

Third Eye

I personally use a 29L for each snake. I highly recommend that you keep them seperate. It is easier to diagnose problems with each one and there is less chace of one getting sick and spreading it to others.
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My inside problems only effect the outside world....And I am ok with that.

I was actually refering to breeding purposes. Since everyone gave me a different answer regarding enclosure size, you will be happy to know that I found out the correct answer: 40 gallon or larger.
To the person who stated that "snakes are solitary by nature" As a herpatology student I can tell you through personal observation, field study, and experimentation that (with a few exceptions such as during hunting) snakes arent totally solitary. Go look it up.

FYI, it is spelled herpetology, not herpatology.
And, while some species of snakes may be communal so far as brumation goes, they are, for the most part, solitary animals. Of course, this is based on only 55 years in the field.

"I was actually refering to breeding purposes."
Why didn't you say so? Actually most breeders put one snake in another's cage for breeding purposes. They don't have "breeding cages."

"I found out the correct answer: 40 gallon or larger."
Wrong. Most people keep and breed their snakes in sweaterboxes. Those who keep their snakes in aquariums usually do so in something smaller than a 40 gallon.

"As a herpatology student I can tell you through personal observation, field study, and experimentation that (with a few exceptions such as during hunting) snakes arent totally solitary."
I'd sure like to know how much personal observation and field study you have under your belt. I've been catching and keeping snakes for over 30 years - they're solitary by nature.

The "Corn Snake Manual" states "Housing snakes individually, except of course during breeding efforts, is a time honored method..."
then it goes into two paragraphs why snakes should be kept separately...look it up!

Tim

A sweater box is not going to be big enough for 4 snakes. And have you checked with "most" of the people who keep snakes in aquariums to be able to state what size they use the most?
Why not just skip all the BS and answer the guys question.
If you have a concern state it after answering the question. To many times there a ton or replies to a question and nobody has actually answered anything.
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Jason

"A sweater box is not going to be big enough for 4 snakes"

Indeed. And if you read my post, you'd see that I advised keeping snakes individually.

"And have you checked with "most" of the people who keep snakes in aquariums to be able to state what size they use the most?"

Yes. 10 to 20 gallon tanks are the norm.

"Why not just skip all the BS and answer the guys question."
I did. Did you read my reply? The question was answered, giving specific cage dimensions.

"If you have a concern state it after answering the question."
I did.

"To many times there a ton or replies to a question and nobody has actually answered anything."
Perhaps. But that wasn't the case here.

Now if I could only come up with some smack to drop on sheshanaga...

Just had to jump in on this one. If it's not

WTF happened to my last post? It all got cut off??

Anyway, what I said was:

If it's not sub-3rd grade level grammar, it's people being outright rude. You answered this guys question and then he decides to go new-q-ler on you for your trouble.

In the words of Gary Dee: "Give 'em steel!"

I think the only way we can settle this is on the Bocce Ball court!

Without delay!

>>Why not just skip all the BS and answer the guys question.

If the question being asked leads you to believe that someone is about to make a mistake or do something wrong, should the question just be answered to avoid potentially offending the person asking the question? Personally, I thought Tim gave a very good answer to the question. At the same time, since the individual asking the question did not give any specifics as to why he wanted to house 4 animals together, I think it was Tim's responsibility to mention that generally accepted husbandry practices suggest that snakes be kept individually when not being introduced for breeding. This is not meant to start the "can I house snakes together" debate since, if I remember correctly, we just discussed that in depth recently. It is merely meant to suggest that not all questions should be answered directly just because someone asked.

Someone once called the zoo where I worked and aksed me to tell her how to kill snakes. I did not answer the question, rather I tried to educate her on the value of snakes to the environment. Should I have told her how to kill a snake just because she asked?

Just some food for thought.

Rob

Yea , what John and Tim said. I'll just keep quiet, which will make both of them happy.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com
www.HerpHelp.com

WTF is up with this post anyway? I just re-read the original response from Smuckler and did not see anything antagonizing about it at all.

As far as "no one answering the question" it would help if all the information was given at the start of the questioning.

For example:
Q: What is it?
A: What is what?
Q: That thing over there?
A: What thing over where?
Q: Why don’t you just answer the question, smart guy? Look it up!

I don't think you would treat these people with such disrespect if you were standing in front of them at a herp show now would you? So why do you do it from the shelter of your keyboard fortress?

I'm just sayin'.....

.

ref to the picture.

Great flick.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com
www.HerpHelp.com

What more information do you need? He wanted to know how big of an enclosure to house 4 snakes.
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Jason

“What more information do you need? He wanted to know how big of an enclosure to house 4 snakes.”

Ok, let me plow through this statement to see if I understand exactly what is being requested:

Is it:

1.) He wanted to know how large of an enclosure would be required to house four snakes together? (not recommended)

2.) He wanted to know how large of an enclosure would be required to house four snakes individually as pets? (aquarium style)

3.) He wanted to know how large on an enclosure would be required to house four snakes in the “lab animal method” (ie: sweater boxes - preferred by breeders)

4.) He wanted to know how large of an enclosure would be needed to house four snakes for breeding purposes?

I could go on and on, but can you see how a lack of basic English grammar skills can cause problems for those reading these posts?

To make matters worse, he claimed to be studying herpetology, yet he was unable to even spell the word correctly. Adding insult to injury, after several proven experts in the field took time out of their day to answer his question (quite thoroughly, I might add) he took it upon himself to make disparaging remarks to those who helped him in the first place.

Uh…what more information do you need?

.

>>What more information do you need? He wanted to know how big of an enclosure to house 4 snakes.
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>>Jason

Hey Jason,
If you notice, his question was how large of an enclosure do you need to HOUSE 4 snakes.
They could have all given one simple answer....NONE
because in the normal scope of corn snake care it just isn't recommended to keep corn snakes together. But instead of just answering with the appropriate answer they decided to go one step farther and explain the reasoning behind their statements.
This was all in an effort to educate this new keeper and help alleviate future problems.

Then a few things happened...He came back indignant about the answers and stated how he was a herpetology student and he KNEW that corn snakes were NOT solitary. Well, he misspelled herpetology which isn't that bad, it can happen but he proved that he is simply a STUDENT and hasn't quite learned his lessons yet. Corn snakes may, on occasion, brumate together and may, on occasion, be found together but these are isolated instances. They are not indicative of corn snakes living together full time. Corn snakes ARE solitary. There are just too many people, with too many years of experience, who have observed this to be the truth.
And then he tried to cover himself by saying he meant for breeding.
BUT, he did not say breeding he said HOUSE together.
So the initial "misunderstanding" is understandable.

but worst of all you come in and act like the new hall monitor and jump on every one's cases for trying to help a guy out.

Hopefully after going back and reading ALL of the responses FULLY you can see where you may have missed the point...or not...whatever, but just for fun I thought I would add this little tid-bit of information to this excellent discussion..

COHABITATION
A FEW THINGS TO THINK ABOUT

I feel it is best to keep snakes separate.
I know a lot of people can and do keep multiple snakes together without problems. I just feel the possible drawbacks need to be expressed.
When a person gets the experience and knowledge of each individual snake in his care, and wants to try co-habitation, it is up to them. They just need to be careful and observant enough to see and understand the subtle signs of stress in their snakes.
There can be definite drawbacks in co-habitation.
If one snake becomes sick there is a very good likelihood the other/others will get sick as well.
It may also take a while (usually too long) to determine which one is the sick one.
If one regurgitates its food you won't know which one unless you happen to get lucky and see it.
If one has a problem stool you won't know which one. Once again one may have a problem and by the time you figure out which one the other/others could end up with the same problem.
Although this is only a slight possibility, it is still a possibility and has been know to happen... one snake could eat the other. Cannibalism can and does occur with corn snakes. The smell of a prey item could trigger one snake to eat the other. Or simple hunger accompanied by a ready food source could do the same. Although uncommon, it has happened and is a possibility.
Another possibility is unwanted pregnancy. A female may become gravid and you may not have the knowledge, desire or ability to incubate the eggs, care for the hatchlings and find homes for them. With hatchlings comes added responsibility.
A lot of people rationalize by saying, "I will just put two males or two females together". That can work but mistakes can be made, especially with hatchlings. You could easily end up with a male and female.
There is also a chance of a female breeding too young or too small and becoming egg-bound. Although uncommon, it is a possibility and can happen.
With multiple snakes in the same enclosure you could easily loose them all if there happens to be an avenue of escape. Instead of losing one you could loose two or more depending on how many you decide to place together.
With multiple snakes in an enclosure, one or all of them could be stressed by the presence of the others. Stress can cause a drop in appetite and other health problems as well.
People will put multiple snakes in an enclosure and ask why one isn't eating.
When they are told it is probably due to stress caused by the other snake, the response is almost always the same "they like each other, they are always under the same hide together". Well this probably just means "that" hide or area of the tank has the optimum conditions they are looking for.
Snakes do not LIKE each other or ENJOY each other’s company.
There is no capacity for snakes to "like" or "enjoy".
I have kept multiple snakes together, without problems, but have made a choice to keep them separate. There are NO good arguments as to why you SHOULD keep them together but there ARE several good arguments as to why you SHOULD NOT.
So, in my opinion, although people do it successfully I just don't think it is worth the risk.
If you decide to keep multiple snakes together, watch closely for any signs of appetite loss, shedding problems, regurgitation or “personality” changes. These could all be signs of stress.
You would also want to feed them in separate containers and give them an hour or so before putting them back together.

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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>>I was actually refering to breeding purposes. Since everyone gave me a different answer regarding enclosure size, you will be happy to know that I found out the correct answer: 40 gallon or larger.
>>To the person who stated that "snakes are solitary by nature" As a herpatology student I can tell you through personal observation, field study, and experimentation that (with a few exceptions such as during hunting) snakes arent totally solitary. Go look it up.

a 40 gallon tank would make an exellent enclosure. Plenty of room to set up an ideal habitat. especially a nice "wild type" display tank ....BUT...did you find out that this would be the recommended size for one corn snake or four?
Although "larger is better" can be true of a lot of animals, younger corns tend to do a little better in smaller enclosures. Just up the enclosure size as they grow.
would you please post references as to where we can find the information supporting your theory on the solitary nature of corn snakes? Just doesn't match what we have seen, learned or read.
I would also love to see notes and observations on your experiments. Control group size, age and sex of animals, habitat conditions, time of experiment..IE days, months, years, goals going into the experiments, results of said experiments and/or anything alse you might be willing to share.
sounds interesting.

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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Let's see outside, free roam, Virginia to Florida to Arkansas to Missouri? I may be off a bit.

OK OK, I was away, just got home from hoem and missed out on all the fun.

Tim plays bocce ball? I see a grill, lots of coolers and,, well even his cat got in on the fun!

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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com
www.HerpHelp.com