Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Happy New Year Everybody! With a new year comes a new breeding season and a chance to look back and learn from the previous one. 2007 was a big year for rainbows. People reported back on 5 different subspecies, quite a few more people participated this year than last, and we made some real progress as far as pinning down an exact parturition date based on post-ovulatory sheds in Brazilian rainbow boas. Thanks to everyone who contributed numbers. I tried to be really thorough in compiling them and then realized, I left one of my own out. If I’ve missed anyone, please let me know so I can correct it. Enough, here are the stats:

Argentines (E. c. alvarezi) - Bobster had a clutch of 6 born on 4-12
Jeff Clark had a clutch of 9 on 5-6

Guyanas (E. cenchria) - Youval had a clutch of 9 born on 6-18
Jazzmachine had a clutch of 12 on 10-15

Campina Grande (E. c. assisi) - Jeff Clark had a clutch of 1 born on 10-4

Columbian (E. c. maurus) -Bryan Hummel reported two clutches on 10-4 but gave no info. Come on now Bryan - if you’re gonna play, play

Brazilian (E. c. cenchria) - tsusnakeguy had a clutch of 13 born on 5-7
medyssa had a clutch of 16 born on 5-18
miloradovich had a clutch of 14 born on 6-30
Jeff Clark produced the following clutches.
19 on 7-19, 15 on 8-30, 31 on 9-3, 10 on 9-
22, and 21 on 10-5.
I produced the following clutches. 9 on 7-31,
17 on 8-02, and 20 on 8-29.
Dave Colling produced the following
clutches. 14 on 9-17, 34 on 9-22, 15 on 9-26,
16 on 9-28, and 23 on 10-20.
Linda (Sunshine) had a clutch of 20 born on
9-28
Paul Buck finished off the year with a surprise
clutch of 19 born on 12-20.

Recognition:

First clutch of the year : Bobster 4-12-07
Largest clutch of the year: Dave Colling: 34 live
Oldest Female: Jeff Clark 11-year-old female who produced a clutch of 31
Heaviest baby: Paul Buck with a baby weighing 35.4 grams

Just to recap, 12 people and 5 subspecies participated. We noted the births of over 350 baby snakes. The sharing if information has led to the realization that there is, in fact, a link between temperatures and length of gestation. Dave Colling keeps his gravid females slightly cooler than I do. He noticed POS days of 129, 133, and 132 while I noticed days of 104 and 105.

Thanks again everyone. I wish you all the best in 2008 (with regards to snakes and otherwise). keep those numbers coming!
-----
Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

Mike,

It's nice that you are doing this for all of us. Thanks. I nominate you Stat Pres. Happy New Year!
-----
When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teachers appears.

Wow, what a great set of information. Thanks for keeping tabs on them all and sharing the results!
-----
Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Great post Mike and I just wish more people can participate next time like Celia, Bryan H., Will and a couple of others but hopefully in two years I might be up there BTW any chondro action going on???
Bob

Hey Bob,

Yeah, it would be nice if we could get some of the other breeders involved in the stats. Hopefully, it will catch on.

Chondros are proving to be much trickier for me than rainbows. Maybe it's because I've never bred pythons before so I'm not quite sure what to look for. I've heard that the Barkers' book on ball pythons is an excellent reference to the reproductive husbandry of pythons. I'd really like to pick it up. just having a hard time spending that kind of cash on something related to ball pythons.

I have two pairs of chondros that have been breeding like crazy since the beginning of October. I think I should have a good idea as to how things are progressing within the next three or four weeks. Thanks for asking,
-----
Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

Mike,
...Lots of people have a hard time breeding Chondros. Many people have tried repeatedly and finally gotten eggs and then not been able to hatch them. It is interesting that the Chondros' supposed closest relatives the Carpet Pythons are extremely easy to breed and their eggs are super easy to incubate. Conversely the true Diamonds are tough to breed and also tough to incubate
Jeff

>>Hey Bob,
>>
>>Yeah, it would be nice if we could get some of the other breeders involved in the stats. Hopefully, it will catch on.
>>
>>Chondros are proving to be much trickier for me than rainbows. Maybe it's because I've never bred pythons before so I'm not quite sure what to look for. I've heard that the Barkers' book on ball pythons is an excellent reference to the reproductive husbandry of pythons. I'd really like to pick it up. just having a hard time spending that kind of cash on something related to ball pythons.
>>
>>I have two pairs of chondros that have been breeding like crazy since the beginning of October. I think I should have a good idea as to how things are progressing within the next three or four weeks. Thanks for asking,
>>-----
>>Mike Lockwood
>>www.tooscaley.com

I've read that the closer you get to actual babies, the harder the process becomes. It's a snap to get them to breed, to get the female to cycle and ovulate is a little harder, to get viable eggs, harder still. The eggs are very sensitive so if you do get them they still need to be incubated. Even if you get through all of that and the eggs incubate successfully, the babies still need to go through feeding trials.

Well, I'm a long way off from that point still. This year,I think I might be making a little more progress than last year.

I think the fact that seem a little harder to breed is appealing to me. I'm hoping it makes the hatch date that much more rewarding.
-----
Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

Hey Mike, thanks for gathering all this info together. I really do think this is a great source of info for defining the breeding process and timelines better.

I do have one update for you, my Girl Boo, who gave birth to 23 babies, was 13 years old at the time. Born in 1994. Sorry Jeff!

And you left out the twins with the lightest viable BRB I've ever seen / heard of at 13 grams.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Sheesh, Dave... just got to be the best at everything now don't you.
-----
Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Hey, my girl earned that title!!!

And you have seen the collection (at least all the pics) YES I do have to have the best!!!!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Dave, I think Mike didn't say anything about your smallest BRB because he had one smaller. I bought the runt of his Tampa litter and the data card sent with the snake said it was 12.39g at birth. He's up to 15g in this picture. In 2006 I had one that was only 10g.

Dan

Hey Dan, thanks for mentioning that guy. I was going to say something but the only place I record their initial masses is on that data card. I thought I remembered him being 12g or so.

He looks great in that picture. Nice red coming in.
-----
Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

Mike, that picture is an old one,it was taken right after I got him but I think he still looks real nice. Just for the record, I think you also had the biggest baby. The female I got from the Tampa litter was listed at 36.71g. I thought she looked big when I got her but I didn't notice her birth weight until now.

Dan

Mike,
....Thanks again this year for keeping the STATS. It was a good year for me because I had mostly good litters and a total of 151 live heathy baby Rainbows.
....I did have three litters of BRBs that are not in your STATS. I had a litter of 22 healthy babies with no slugs or stillborns on 8/15. The mother of the litter was Jari and she was imported as a 51 inch skinny subadult in 1992. This makes her the oldest female to lay babies in the 2007 STATS (sorry Dave). I also had a litter with 4 live babies and an unknown large number of slugs on 9/1. The mother of that litter was Canuma who is around 9 years old. I also had another litter with 19 healthy babies, 2 stillborns and 4 slugs on 10-10. The mother of that litter was Fiona who was born here 8 years ago. I did find posts here in the forum I made about the two large litters using the mother's names in the search function. The third and smaller litter was probably reported here but I did not find a post on it using the search function.
....I did not record 2007 shed dates but will do so if possible this year. I did notice larger variations than in the past in time from last observed mating to parturition though I may have missed seeing some mating activity. A couple litters were delivered over 6.5 months after last observed mating so my method of predicting birth 5.5 months after last observed mating may not be very accurate or may require more closely watching for matings.
Jeff

>>Happy New Year Everybody! With a new year comes a new breeding season and a chance to look back and learn from the previous one. 2007 was a big year for rainbows. People reported back on 5 different subspecies, quite a few more people participated this year than last, and we made some real progress as far as pinning down an exact parturition date based on post-ovulatory sheds in Brazilian rainbow boas. Thanks to everyone who contributed numbers. I tried to be really thorough in compiling them and then realized, I left one of my own out. If I’ve missed anyone, please let me know so I can correct it. Enough, here are the stats:
>>
>>Argentines (E. c. alvarezi) - Bobster had a clutch of 6 born on 4-12
>> Jeff Clark had a clutch of 9 on 5-6
>>
>>Guyanas (E. cenchria) - Youval had a clutch of 9 born on 6-18
>> Jazzmachine had a clutch of 12 on 10-15
>>
>>Campina Grande (E. c. assisi) - Jeff Clark had a clutch of 1 born on 10-4
>>
>>Columbian (E. c. maurus) -Bryan Hummel reported two clutches on 10-4 but gave no info. Come on now Bryan - if you’re gonna play, play
>>
>>Brazilian (E. c. cenchria) - tsusnakeguy had a clutch of 13 born on 5-7
>> medyssa had a clutch of 16 born on 5-18
>> miloradovich had a clutch of 14 born on 6-30
>> Jeff Clark produced the following clutches.
>> 19 on 7-19, 15 on 8-30, 31 on 9-3, 10 on 9-
>> 22, and 21 on 10-5.
>> I produced the following clutches. 9 on 7-31,
>> 17 on 8-02, and 20 on 8-29.
>> Dave Colling produced the following
>> clutches. 14 on 9-17, 34 on 9-22, 15 on 9-26,
>> 16 on 9-28, and 23 on 10-20.
>> Linda (Sunshine) had a clutch of 20 born on
>> 9-28
>> Paul Buck finished off the year with a surprise
>> clutch of 19 born on 12-20.
>>
>>Recognition:
>>
>>First clutch of the year : Bobster 4-12-07
>>Largest clutch of the year: Dave Colling: 34 live
>>Oldest Female: Jeff Clark 11-year-old female who produced a clutch of 31
>>Heaviest baby: Paul Buck with a baby weighing 35.4 grams
>>
>>Just to recap, 12 people and 5 subspecies participated. We noted the births of over 350 baby snakes. The sharing if information has led to the realization that there is, in fact, a link between temperatures and length of gestation. Dave Colling keeps his gravid females slightly cooler than I do. He noticed POS days of 129, 133, and 132 while I noticed days of 104 and 105.
>>
>>Thanks again everyone. I wish you all the best in 2008 (with regards to snakes and otherwise). keep those numbers coming!
>>-----
>>Mike Lockwood
>>www.tooscaley.com

Hey Jeff, np on your re-taking of the oldest female title, really good news to hear even older females still having babies!!

as a skinny 51 inch import in 1992 that'd make her at least 17, more likely 18 or even older.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

of course Dave but last year I kind of remember Mike's post talking about Jeff having the oldest female at 16 and you know what I mean. I remember that cuz it was pretty funny to me. Also Mike sent out gifts last year which prolly got lost in the mail or so he says and he also tallied up numbers and I think Jeff had high score.
Bob

Dave,
....Jari has always been thin and not so healthy looking. She had lousy small litters with too many slugs up until 2004 but has gained some weight and thown nice big litters since then. I have talked to people who say they have female BRBs over 20 years old still producing.
Jeff

>>Hey Jeff, np on your re-taking of the oldest female title, really good news to hear even older females still having babies!!
>>
>>as a skinny 51 inch import in 1992 that'd make her at least 17, more likely 18 or even older.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Sorry I missed those numbers. Not to make excuses but Jeff, I think I missed the 8-15 clutch because I was in Daytona and didn't check the forum. I probably missed the 9-1 clutch because school was starting and I was spending less time on the forum. I have no excuse ofr the October clutch.

Oh well, I think the point is still made that we've done a great job of sharing information on this forum. Hopefully, we can keep it up in 2008 and recruit some new participants. Mysticaldiva might just be the first.
-----
Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

I used the data to create a simple spread sheet, I can email it to anyone just send me a PM or let me know here. Below is a photo of it..
It would be nice to get even more detailed info like, slugs, still born, and weights of all snakes involved parents, newborns etc..
~THANKS FLAVOR for keeping track of all this info!!!~
And to all Breeders who make it public info!!

-----
Jason A.
"Long time Herper, first year Breeder `07."

I really like that method of keeping track of the data. Right now, I just copy the post to a word document and then type int he numbers to my annual post. Putting up a picture of a spreadsheet like that is a much more convenient way to look at all of the data at once.

Maybe our New Year's resolution for 2008 (as a community) could be to agree on what types of data we would like to see collected and then everyone try to report back on all of those numbers. Next year's stat post could be in spreadsheet form like you heve there. Very nice, thanks for posting that.
-----
Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

Hey Jason, send it to me and I'll fill in what I can on my clutches.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

>>Hey Jason, send it to me and I'll fill in what I can on my clutches.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Will do but I forgot the file @ work
I will send it your way tomorrow
BTW PM me ur email..
-----
Jason A.
"Long time Herper, first year Breeder `07."

Jason,
I'd also like to have a copy of that page (save me from having to actually do some work). We can tweek them as we like then send them off to Mike.
Thanks for the sheet.
Paul

Jason,
...Nice work. The spreadsheet as it is should work well for all of us and what information we want to report. Anyone who posted a litter on the forum but was not participating we could enter data on the spreadsheet for their litter. The clutch size on my Campina Grande litter was 1 rather than 36.
Jeff

>>I used the data to create a simple spread sheet, I can email it to anyone just send me a PM or let me know here. Below is a photo of it..
>>It would be nice to get even more detailed info like, slugs, still born, and weights of all snakes involved parents, newborns etc..
>>~THANKS FLAVOR for keeping track of all this info!!!~
>>And to all Breeders who make it public info!!
>>
>>
>>-----
>>Jason A.
>>"Long time Herper, first year Breeder `07."
>>

Mike,
Thanks for compiling this info. Its great stuff. I like what Jason had done with the spreadsheet. If we all have a standard spreadsheet we can fill in all kinds of useless (and hopefully some useful) information. I think it would make your job a lot easier to receive a spreadsheet from each breeder that you could then compile into a master sheet.
I know your interested in the POS numbers and my last litter just was weird, but the first two from Eve were both about 130 days after POS.
Thanks again,
Paul

hot spot set at? 82 or something

Bob,
My hot spot ranges from about 85 to 92 (in summer never drops lower than 88). I have two areas that are usually in the high 80's year round. Coolest areas drop into the high 60's in winter.
Paul

I think the exact numbers used by Mike was 85 or 86 and Dave was 82 or 81 so that would put you within Dave's range but do you plan to seperate mom from breeding this year since she may be thin or are you gonna let nature takes its course?
Bob

My temps are actually higher than both Dave and Mike in the hot spots (if those numbers are right).
I keep my animals together year round and figure they know what they're doing. Let nature do her thing (as far as she can do it in a 6x4x3 ft enclosure).
Paul

I was trying to imply that she stayed prolly in the 82 degree range during her gestation as opposed to say getting on the 90 degree one, sorry for the confusion (I'm good for that) Did she move constantly out of curiosity and did she ever use the HCP (heat coil)?

Gotcha. She'll stay in a spot for weeks at a time then move off to another temp zone. I've temp gunned her at 92 during earlier pregnancies but she probably spends the majority of her time in the mid 80's. I'm embarrassed how poorly I monitored her this year (pretty sure I missed a shed during summer altogether). This year she never inverted or basked flopped over on her side as she's done in the past. It was only just a week before she gave birth that I looked at her and thought 'Wow, she looks big'. This year I'm hoping Kali, her daughter, will ovulate but she's always been a light eater and is not a big BRB. This year she does look big enough to go so we'll see.
Paul

I was trying to imply that she stayed prolly in the 82 degree range during her gestation as opposed to say getting on the 90 degree one, sorry for the confusion (I'm good for that) Did she move constantly out of curiosity and did she ever use the HCP (heat coil)?

I actually think they were born on 10-01-07 and I had two litters born on the same day totalling 38 or 39 babies. I do not have the weight or sex ratio (but I was high female).

I was really lax about good records this year. I will try to be better in 2008.

Does anybody have a suggestion for a GOOD digital scale???
Then I can start getting more detailed data on MOM and babies.

I have needed a good scale for years (up to 10,000 grams??? and would like one with good accuracy 1/10 gram accuracy??)...but I probably cannor have one that does both for a reasonable sum of money.

Suggestions???
-----
Bryan Hummel
www.rainbowboas.com

without spending a fortune, you'll need two, one in gram increments, mine goes up to 7000 and a second smaller one with higher resolution for the babies.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats