Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i have a pretty young mangrove and im wanting to start leash training him. so i went and got a leash small enough for him and put it on him and he started trying to bite me alot. which on a regular day he usually doesnt bite at all unless ive been feeding the other animals.

is it normal for the monitor to get a little angry when you first start leash training?

its not a dog.y would you put a leash on it

I hate seeing people that think monitors are dogs.

MONITORS ARE NOT DOGS!!!!

It bites when you put a leash on it because the animal is feeling threatened and helpless. Monitors are not bred over generations to handle 'leashing' like dogs are...

...putting a leash on a monitor is about as smart as putting a leash on a snake...

...it serves no use for the animal......having the monitor restrained is for YOURSELF ONLY!!!

well i just figured if i got him to accept a leashe i could take him out in the sun to bask naturally without having to worry about him taking off

If that is your goal....

Return the leash and build an outdoor enclosure.

Go with the outdoor enclosure. This is one of the reason there are so many cities passing laws governing the large reptiles. People want to parade around a park with their 6' water monitor or walk around with thier 10' burm around thier neck. The general public usually dosent want to see this and all it takes is freaking out some politions wife and bam no more large reptiles. Sorry to rant thats usually not like me. Thanks Ian Russell

No offense, Ian, but I respectfully disagree with that statement. Laws are passed because of: a few people's fear, a lot of animal rights activists, and stupid, "sh**-for-brains" politicians wanting to make a name for themselves.

Most of the general public loves to see exotic creatures, but you're right in a sense that we shouldn't be parading thru parks. However, I ain't going underground with mine, but I don't shove 'em in people's faces, either. If I were to walk one of my monitors on a leash, it would be here at home or somewhere where I was invited to take it. I don't live in an apartment complex, I live way out in the boonies where I can't see my nearest neighbor's house. On that aspect, I feel you're right.

Catch ya later!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

I used to carry my tegu around San Francisco when I lived there years ago, and I would say that 99% of the people were very interested in him...asked lots of questions, wanted to touch him, etc. However that 1% that is freaked out or doesn't appreciate the animal is usually the one making calls and trying to ban them so they don't have to be scared while walking down the street. So I that yes, the animal rights activists, politicians/fish and game(people with a power issue) and that 1% that dosen't want to see them (and are willing to go great lengths to make sure that happens), are making the keeping of reptiles more and more difficult. Hopefully in time, that will change.

After reading your post I realized that I was thinking as a big snake owner (burmese pythons) and not as a lizard owner. A lot more people are terrified of snakes than lizards so monitors most likely would be more accepted. But even a lot of those that have fears are still curious. It's that dang noisy 1%, for sure.

> > > Hopefully in time, that will change.

Not until we start making more noise than they do. We've got 'em outnumbered, I believe, we just don't let our voices be heard by the right people.

Catch ya later!
Mike
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

This is an issuewe are fighting constantly in indianapolis. They tried outlawing dart frogs as well as limiting snakes to under 6' I believe and lizards under 4'. Im sure my lengths are off there I cant remember exactly. Anyway the only reason it didnt pass is they had the darts in there wich are harmless after f1. They need to pass the laws against dogs if anything not that i dont own one but thats what all the attacks are from in indy anyway. Thanks Ian

Expect it to flip out every time you put a leash on it. To him you are a large predator that will most likely eat him. If he doesn’t flip out something is wrong with him. Someday you may gain his trust enough to allow some manipulation but don’t count on it. Enjoy him for what he is. If you want a lizard you can take out and put on your shoulder or walk around with a leash try a uro or a beardie, they’re great.

So on a positive note, your mangrove’s reaction is healthy and appropriate. Please read through this site and check out pro-exotics site for some good basic monitor information. Good luck!

Tom

well i work part time at a little reptile shop in texas and ive seen a few customers that came in with their 4 foot long monitors mostly savannahs that did pretty good on a leash but if hes gonna react that way everytime then i probably wont put him on a leash. hes already pretty trusting though hes bit me once when i had food in one hand and him in the other but hes pretty calm when im handling him climbs all over me and likes to sit on my head

Let's do away with associating a leash to a dog or any other animal for a moment and look at it from the standpoint of the purpose of a leash.

Meriam-Webster Dictionary:
leash - a: a line for leading or restraining an animal b: something that restrains: the state of being restrained

A cage/enclosure is something that also restrains. (The dictionary uses the word "confine" in it's definition of "cage." "Confine" is the same as "restrain."

How many of us have cages with plenty of room in it so our monitors can get plenty of exercise? Very, very few. Would a leash not be a decent way to let our monitors roam around outdoors without fear of them escaping? Could a monitor not get any mental stimulation from it as well?

Maybe some would and some wouldn't, it all depends on the individual monitor. Monitors love to explore, but a timid monitor, one that doesn't tolerate handling, will most likely be trying to escape rather than getting mental stimulation by exploring. But one that tolerates handling quite well could possibly benefit from the mental stimulation of exploring while on a leash.

I've got a 3ft savannah monitor that was obese when I got her and my food reduction and cage settings seem to be working to reduce her weight. However, I've considered making her a leash so I can give her more exercise outdoors to help reduce weight and keep muscle tone. I haven't had the time to do so, yet but there's a good chance I will. She is very handleable.

No, they're not dogs, but who's trying to teach 'em to catch a frisbee or fetch a ball? Ha! Ha!

In this particular case I'd say that "eaverynecro's" monitor isn't ready for a leash, and may never be. Maybe, maybe not.

> > > "is it normal for the monitor to get a little angry when you first start leash training?"

Your monitor was being more defensive than angry. Tom (tpalopoli) made a good post in referrence to that. And for monitors that do tolerate handling I feel they shouldn't be handled daily or very often as this could cause a lot of stress.

When I got my first sav I was fairly new to monitors and liked the idea of walking one on a leash just for the thrill of it. ("The thrill of it" - the same reason nearly everyone owns a monitor, if they'll be honest about it. It's quite a thrill to watch, raise, breed, etc... If there were no thrill, no excitement or enjoyment, you wouldn't have one.)

Anyways, I took advantage of my new sav's timid behavior and tried my ferret's leash out on it. I loved it! But on the other hand, I haven't done it since. Why? I don't know, just haven't had a desire or need to, that is up until now that I have an obese sav that could use all the extra exercise it can get. Maybe one of these days I'll get her leash made and use it on her. Maybe, maybe not.

Think about it.

Ya'll have a good one!
HH

-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

RANT RANT RANT, I really didn't want to get envolved in this thread, as I really could go all nuts and stuff. But hey, whats a little nuts and stuff after the Christmas season.

I think all of you are not looking at the subject. The subject is a mangrove or Savs. These are wild animals and as such are subject to what all wild animals are.

A walk on a leash IS NOT EXERCISE, as the subjects, do not walk on a leash naturally(think about this, a normal monitor would try to get out of the confines before walking). Their actual exercise, is all about digging, climbing, squeezing in tight places. Climbing all around bushes, in over, under, etc. A WALK ON A LEASH is MORE worthless then walking a human prisoner in solitary confinement, walk down the hall and back.

You guys say, your trying to give them something natural, but your so far from it, its very very sad and why so many of these wild creatures PERISH QUICKLY in confinement. A normal monitor heats itself up to maximum body temps, BEFORE, they venture out of SAFETY. REMEMBER, their holes/hides/crevices ARE SAFETY from adverse conditions(too hot or too cold)(too wet or too dry) and from all things that may harm them, YOU and other predators are what they HIDE FROM. They do NOT VENTURE out, when their temps are not suitable, BECAUSE, they cannot run when their temps are not up to near maximum levels. Could you imagine being toted around by a large monster, and you cannot physically run. NOT A GOOD MENTAL PICTURE.

What I am getting at is, your taking HANDICAPPED(never warm enough) individuals and binding them with a leash and either following them(SCARES THE CRAP OUT OF THEM) or PULLING them here and there and out of places they WANT TO GO.

YES, they eventually lose the WILL TO LIVE. and allow this. IMAGINE a comatose mental patient being led around with no will to resist. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOUR DOING, and whats worse, you take joy in that.

Then consider, a fully warmed up monitor would not tolerate a leash. If content, they would spend ALL their time trying to get out of the leash(confines) AND THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER THEY ARE TAME OR NOT OR TRUST YOU OR NOT. They simply do not like being TIED UP.

hahahahahahahahhahahahaha is that plain enough for you folks?

In actual fact and by results, the wonderful folks who have practiced this type of thing RARELY have their monitor live over five years. In most cases, these folks claim to be caring folks. They may well be, but they are still killing off the animals they love.

YES as with everything, there are a few exceptions. I guess by number, they would be 1 in 100,000. That actually thrive in such conditions. Its my opinion, its not the method that allows them to survive, its the keeper. Some folks actually can feel their animals and know when not to mess with them and when too. Which leads to this. YOU FOLKS ARE NOT ONE OF THOSE FOLKS or you would not be asking such questions. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE SENSITIVE TO THE ANIMALS THEY KEEP. But most just push their animals around.

Please understand, theres nothing wrong with not having the ability to understand what these animals are. THere is noting wrong with being naive in your ability to keep them. What is wrong is killing them with overboard misguided care.

AS already stated, if you have to ability to allow a monitor outdoors, then by all means build it a large outdoor cage with lots of room to EXERCISE AND DIG AND CLIMB, etc. But to tie it up and think thats a good thing. Hmmmmmmmmmmm its not really a good idea for the monitor, it only allows you to lose some of your guilt.

HH I attached this to your post because hopefully you will think about this and not get mad at me(most hate being pointed out as the bad guy) Then consider, we are ALL THE BAD guy for putting them in cages in the first place. Muchless putting such a magnificient animal on a rope. How sad. RANT RANT RANT

Hello, my name is Bad Bart. Hahahahaha!!!

I just got in and your reply was the first thing I've read. Let me tell you something, FR, I think you.......
.....have some good points.

Finally! A sensible, in-depth, anti-leashing reply. I didn't even make it halfway thru when I felt convicted, stopped reading & went to PhotoBucket and deleted the pic I had in my first post.

I've got some things I need to tend to and hope to be able to come back a lil' later tonight and post some comments that I feel will be beneficial to this discussion.

I'll say this real quick & then I've gotta skidaddle.
While one person sees something one way and another person sees it another, it doesn't mean that one or the other does not care, it could simply mean that one sees things that the other doesn't.

ALL of my animals are considered family members and are not dispensible. Not even the 75 or so rats that I raise as feeders. They get the same love & care as the rest of my animals.

Ha! No, I didn't take ANY offense to anything that you said, Frank, not the slightest. It's just that there's some unjustified judgment in this thread, mostly just because someone doesn't think the one someone else does. Well, we're all different, but I've yet to see anyone post ill intentions for using a leash.

Yes, I understand the passion, but hopefully it's something that we all share.

Catch ya later!
Mike
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

> > > A WALK ON A LEASH is MORE worthless then walking a human prisoner in solitary confinement, walk down the hall and back.

The walk wasn't worthless to me. Of course, it would've been better had they let me out of that weird jacket they had me in.

Unfortunately, or fortunately for everyone else, I don't have the time to get too in-depth like I wanted to. All-in-all, I think I presented some cases in which someone, like myself, might actually think a monitor could benefit from the use of a leash. And I think Frank did a good job of countering those points.

I had considered some of the points that FR made, mostly in the area of the mental effect on the monitor. I was thinking along the lines of a mentally capable monitor where FR was thinking that there is no such thing. And he may very well be right.

I was also looking at it as ME being the one using a leash and not the average pet reptile keeper of today. I'm not saying that I'm better than anyone/everyone else, I'm just saying that I'm pretty sure I would've noticed any mental stress as it happened and would've halted everything. Unfortunately, the average keeper of today has very little, if any, animal behavior experience, or just plain ol' experience with animals. I realize that may sound a bit egotistical to some but please believe me, that's not what I'm implying. I'm not a braggart, I'm a low-life scumbag that loves animals and loves to have fun & cut up with people. Well, OK, that was a lie; kinda sorta. Ha! Ha!

Allow me to bring it to your attention again the fact that I enjoyed a bit of a thrill when I put a newly acquired 2ft savannah monitor on a leash for a few minutes while inside my house. What can I say? I'm human. You want me to lie? Can't do that, not my nature. My apologies to those of you that thought I was perfect.

I really don't remember much about it. I suppose that if I really felt it was OK, served a purpose, or what have you, that I would've done again. But I didn't. I never even had a desire to do it again.

Yes, I was thinking about using a leash to exercise my obese female sav, but I've had her for over 4 months now and have yet to even come close to doing it. I'm concerned about her weight and keeping her muscles toned, but I've been working on that from the get-go, without a leash. And she's making progress.

Frank, I tip my hat to you for one of your better posts as this one was very effective. And you, Sir, know what I mean by that.

Hey! Why don't somebody start a thread about free-roaming monitors that sleep in bed with them? I'd love to see the dance.

Ya'll take care!
Mike
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

If you want to leash train and animal get a dog, leash training a monitor is just plain dumb. I hope you havent been asking questions or reading on a forum that centers around making hugable, tame, friendly, pet monitor lizards. Theres an idiot who was posting here for a while that had a goal to convince everyone that she and her husband created a new method of taming monitors, and that they love being treated like a lapdog.

The one other thing I think I can add to this is that monitors aren't really designed for leashes and and you would have a hard time keeping one on a monitor. Furthermore have you ever had your mangrove get loose? this species is incredibly fast when loose and I can tell you now of your mangrove gets off it's leash outside it's gone. Perhaps you should consider an outdoor enclosure for exercise during warmer weather. An outdoor enclosure with an aviary-type double door as with how fast mangroves you'll need it.

oh yea i know he moves pretty fast. he'll be sitting still one second and then at the blink of an eye hes under the sofa or dresser.