Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The reptile show in Saint Louis had many varanids this year which i was happy to see. i also saw alot of alligators for sale. or maybe it was crocodiles. or both...anyways...i am wondering how it is legal (or if it is legal) to sell these to any person who wants one?

It varies from state to state and city to city. Ian

>>The reptile show in Saint Louis had many varanids this year which i was happy to see. i also saw alot of alligators for sale. or maybe it was crocodiles. or both...anyways...i am wondering how it is legal (or if it is legal) to sell these to any person who wants one?

As was said, varies by locale. My cousin has a gator, got for him by his then gf as a bday present. In PA you can buy them in the pet store. Not anything to regulate them as long as you don' t release them to the wild.

Where as in NY it is permit only, microchipped, you send the body to the DEC when they die.

Varies.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

the other option in New york is to go to Pottstown or Hamburg and get your gator or caiman and keep your mouth shut. That's what every one did when I lived there, it was almost a standing joke. I was a member of Upstate herpetological Association when I lived there and they had an adoption program. If you had a Caiman permit you could adopt all the caimans you wanted. At every meeting they were looking for homes for 2 or 3 or more caimans.

>>the other option in New york is to go to Pottstown or Hamburg and get your gator or caiman and keep your mouth shut. That's what every one did when I lived there, it was almost a standing joke. I was a member of Upstate herpetological Association when I lived there and they had an adoption program. If you had a Caiman permit you could adopt all the caimans you wanted. At every meeting they were looking for homes for 2 or 3 or more caimans.

In the last couple three years they have tightened up on who gets permits and the fines for having a crocodilian without one. Personally I don't have any interest in losing all my animals, a fair chunk of money and my rep just to own a gator.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

That's you, but it was very apparent to me that a lot of other people did not feel the same way as like I said I used to see alot of caimans pop up in the adoption program. I also cannot tell you how many people I used to see at shows in Pennsylvania buying caimans who I knew were from New York. It's like I said it was almost a standing joke about how many New Yorkers get caimans in Penn. I'm sure it happens now with the big constrictors and the big monitors as well and in fact I have said for years that a good bunch of the escaped burms here in the everglades are the result of New york's new laws. There are too many macho snake people in the tri-state area with relatives in the Miami area for me not to believe that they aren't coming here and dumping their burms when they get too big.Btw the permits for N.Y. have always been tough to get and that is what causes the problems with the underground reptile trade.

logic says that if someone in new york were irresponsible enough to release a large constrictor into the wild instead of finding a good home for it, they would certainly not waste the time and money transporting a large constrictor to the everglades to release it into the wild. I'm not claiming that it never happens, but I doubt that it is the cause of the large influx of large reptiles in the everglades. The laws in new york have had very little affect on the people that own large reptiles. They still keep them, some better than others, and there is still a percentage that decides they can no longer handle such large reptiles and acts irresponsibly. A new law only affects those that are responsible. It's against the law to release a non-indigenous reptile into the wild also. If someone is responsible enough to decide to abide by one law (can no longer keep large constrictors), I don't see reason for them to break another.

People seem confused about the fact that large constrictors only show up in the everglades and other suitable environments and draw the conclusion that people come from all around to drop their reptiles off in these environments. False. Even here in upstate new york I have heard many cases of large constrictors found in the woods, fields, near streams, etc... even basements. The reason it doesn't happen as much as in the everglades is because the snakes don't have a chance here. People looking to get rid of large reptiles may realize this, otherwise when a reptile is released it only has a couple of months at best before it is doomed.

If you are in Upstate New york then I am sure you are familiar with the heavy traffic between the tri-state area and the Miami area particularly among the groups of people from where the macho snake people come from. Having lived in Upstate N.Y. myself and being familiar with this type of herp keeper AND currently living in central fl. where I am fairly familiar with the different non-native populations in the state I stand by what I say. We have lots of loose reptiles of many different types all over the state that are indescriminately dumped off but when you look at the burm population in the everglades to me it points to that conclusion as being a major part of the cause. Just as the Nile monitor population in Fort Meyers points to a different conclusion. Or the red headed agama populations in Sanford and Davie point to a different conclusion(though similsr to the nile monitor one.) I am not some cracker blaming all of Fla's ills on N.Y. but when the pizza oven cage gets too big for the burm they're not supposed to have to begin with and they're going down to Boca next weekend to they're uncle's timeshare anyway...well guess who's coming along on a trip.

i found an adult iguana running across my street last year? (i live in saint louis). Thats not even that large of an animal but just goes to show irresponsible pet owners dump their animals just about anywhere, everglades new york or saint louis ha ha.

I think Hurricane Andrew was responsible for a good percentage of all the non-natives, whether it be Monkeys, livestock, or Reptiles. Alot of the tourist traps that had the exotic petting zoos and such were all just about wiped out, not to mention all the animals that private keepers couldn't or didn't want to take with them.

I don't know too many 'macho snake keepers'... but I don't disagree that they are out there. I just try to stay away from that scene. I understand where you get the notion that someone might bring a snake a long for a trip to miami, but I think you're going a little overboard with it. I would still wager that that majority of the animals released into florida were owned by florida residents (be they private keepers, importers, breeders, etc.).

I still stand by the fact that anyone irresponsible enough to release a non-native species into the wild isn't going to worry about where they are releasing it. That's why upstate new york has its fair share of non-native species that are released (including burms, large lizards, large predatory cats, etc.). Fortunately almost all of them (reptilian ones at least) are not equipped to deal with the harsh climate and succumb before they can do any damage.

On a side note, it's amazing how many species are making their way back into the Rochester area on their own. There have been many black bear sightings over the past summer that were heavily publicized. There have also been mountain lion sightings (including a video tape recorded by a family friend who runs a farm), though the DEC claims that this is not so, despite the evidence pointing towards the contrary. I find that kind of strange.

People have been releasing large numbers of reptiles(large and small) and many other animals into all of fla. for a very long time. My guess is was done in large numbers since the mid fifties.

South Fla. Has and is the home of mass imports(all kinds of animals). And the cages are way better now. In the old days, chicken wire was the norm. The animals did not have a cost, so no one cared what go out, as long as more came in.

I think the problem is not the released animals, its the strenght of the habitat. In those days, the wild areas were vast and WILD. Now they are merely remnants of the habitats they were. So invasive animals are now getting the edge, AS TO BE EXPECTED.

In my humble experience, ferals and invasives in fla, have nothing to do with New York City, or any other big city. They have everything to do with the mass amounts of people and habitat destruction. Cheers