Reptile & Amphibian Forums

how do you know if you create a new color or patern? if you have never observed it befor just call it a new morph? there must be more to it than that?
Foot Hill Reptiles

you must prove it out genetically by breeding siblings, parents and out crossing it with other forms.
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"I try to take one day at a time but sometimes several days attack me at once"

so any variant that isnt mainstreem can be a new morph so long as you can reproduce the results of said varient?
Foot Hill Reptiles

then it should be bred with that gene, and anything else that it "could" be.

When various new hypo lines came up, they were bred with the old hypos to see if normals or hypos were produced. When several breedings proved the new line was not the same recessive gene as any of the old, known, similar genes, then everyone began to accept it as a new morph. In most cases, other breeders duplicated the results of the first breeder before it became generally accepted by most breeders.

Sometimes a breeder will decide to pick out a name for something that just "looks" different, or a combo of some "old" types, without a lot of test breeding. Very often, it will remain controversial for quite some time and can result in more than one name for the same thing. The buying public usually decides which name it prefers, and that name sticks.

You should be aware that a relatively new or unknown breeder who names a new morph can be met with some skepticism among other breeders, unless he / she has some pretty good proof that it isn't just a new name for an old morph.

There isn't really any official "naming committee" to make these decisions. It is just a combination of peer pressure / influence, use of favorite names by customers and breeders, and acceptance and use of names printed in various books and / or well known websites, which will tend to influence other breeders and hobbyists.

Some morphs are created by years of selective breeding. For example, if you selectively bred Okeetee Corns with wide black borders, it might be possible to create an orange snake with black spots.

Other morphs are "sure things." If a hypo Desert King was bred to a anerythristic Desert King, the offspring would be double het for ghost. When bred togather those double hets would have a 1 in 16 chance of producing the first ghost Desert King ever. This is how snow corns were made, by breeding anerys and amels and then breeding their offspring.

Some morphs exist from wild caught snakes. The Banana Ball python is an example of a unique wild caught morph that is co-dominant when bred to normal Ball Pythons.

So I reckon there's a lot of ways morphs come into existence.

Tim

Third Eye

Thanks for the replys, So I take it if you are out to create new morphs you need to be well versed in the genetics of the snakes and what makes what correct? With that being said can anyone direct me to a good site on this?
Foot Hill Reptiles

to know something about the genetics.

Sometimes somebody stumbles upon a new gene, although they may not know whether or not it really IS new.

If you don't understand the basics, you can get help to understand it. Try www.serpwidgets.com for a great start. He also wrote a genetics book that he sells on his site (and I also sell it).

Good luck!

It depends on what you mean by make a new morph.

If you are talking about line breeding for a specific appearance or producing a new combination of old/existing genetic traits then you should check refferences like the one Kathy mentioned or get in personal contact with some of the major professional breeders. That way you can find out if someone has already done it or not. This is especially important since it is often the case that some of the premier breeders will have produced something already but not put it out for sale to the public yet.

If you are wanting a completely new genetic trait then the only advice I can give you is to do alot of searching in the wild and breeding. There is no safe or ethical way to increase the odds of a random mutation ocuring which is what you would need for a new genetic trait. As a result you are left with hunting for one that ocurred naturally in the wild or just breeding as many corns as you can to hopefully get lucky and have a "weird" one eventually pop out.

My suggestion is to think of possible combinations of existing genetic traits and line breeding for particular appearances. Then look arround online and see if you can find mention of someone producing them anywhere. Finally if you still do not see it anywhere ask one or more of the premier breeders if they know anyone working on that combination. If they don't know of someone working on the combination then your odds are fairly decent of being able to produce it first. Of course you could boost your odds by keeping breeding pairs of as many different 2,3,or 4 gene morphs as possible. That way you already have breeding age corns with the genes you want and can quickly produce offspring hetrozygous for the combination you are looking for.

Good Luck and I would definitely try and pick up the basic recessive, dominant, co-dominant genetic knowledge as well.

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

to producing something distinctive, is to selectively breed an already existing morph. Over many generations, you can keep choosing some extreme examples with more or less than the usual amounts of white, red, yellow, black, etc. Or some other "look" that you can increase with successive generations of selective breeding. Just have some goals in mind each time you choose holdbacks from your clutches each year. That is how the various amel specialties were produced, such as alb. okeetees, sunglows, and candycanes. Once you can fairly reliably produce that "look" from your bloodlines, you can sell it as a special bloodline, breed, or whatever you want to call it. You can name it if you like. Others who breed and /or buy corns will decide whether it is a desirable improvement by voting with their wallets. The name and look may or may not stand the test of time, and go on to become a generally accepted morph / breed.

That is very different from stumbling upon a new recessive gene and doing test breedings to prove it out. You can't really plan for that - just takes working with lots of corns and always keeping your eyes open for something new.

I really got a "kick" out of the part you mentioned,...."they will vote with their wallets"!!..LOL......how very true!

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

yep, she nailed it.I have always said a snake is worth what somebody will pay you for it.

Shannon

Absolutely buddy!,.....supply and demand!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"