Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,
I'm looking at getting a pair of Black Milksnakes (L.t.gaigae)...so far I really like what I'm seeing. Love the colour, like their size and also hear they're really tame. Also like the fact they like it cool....I currently also breed garters and keep them cooler. What I'd like to know about them though is do they hide a lot? I'm hoping on putting them in a nice pair of 4'X2' cages and would prefer if when I went into the snake room they'd be out and about. If they just ball up and hide all the time, I think I'd probably prefer another snake. I don't expect them to be out all the time or anywhere near as active as my garters....but would like to be able to see them cruising around the cage every now and then. I currently have a Thayeri king female that I NEVER see...maybe once a month if I'm lucky and don't want another snake like that. Well thanx ahead of time for any info. or advice.

Roy

Well, to be honest, all milksnakes are pretty seclusive by nature, and hatchlings are notorious for being VERY secretive.

Most neonate milksnakes(there are some exceptions though) view anything of human size as a ferocious predator that is going to swoop down and eat them, but this behavior usually tends to subside after a while.

Black milks are a great choice , and they are definitely among the more "easy-going" ones to own. They usually do very well in regards to being held and have a great even temperament. Blacks, as well as some others are more outgoing, and less secretive once they get a little size on them. I think you will probably like these dudes!

best regards, ~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Mine unfortunately stay in their moist hides most of the time even though I keep them in Vision 400 cages. (Other folks have told me theres are out more often) They are a real treat to see out in the light. My animals are out and about in the spring (especially males)more often. Not as good a display animal as some ratsnakes but they are beautiful, well behaved and enjoyable to be around. When they get larger they handle a bit like a boa. Every once in a while you can see hints of that milksnake jumpy but most times they are real laid back gentle animals. They don't do that chew on the hand thing like Kingsnakes occassionally do and they are VERY heavy and dense/muscular for a snake their size.

If you're not looking to observe natural behaviuor but just to have a laid back lap snake that doesn't seem to mind to hang out and watch tv with you and just chill they are great candidates. I would highly recomend them as I'm sure a lot of others here would.

Mex. Black Kings are also nice but I would say the difference in shiny for me is a normally shined black shoe(Mex. King) compared to a patent leather shoe( Black Milk). This analogy is only true if the shoe wasn't shined by a Marine!

Good luck!

Like the others said, they are probably not the best display animals out there, but I have housed some in 4x2 foot cages in the past and there were plenty of times I walked in the snake room and saw them out crusing around.

If you want a display animal, get a green tree boa or something that will sit on a perch all day. They're pretty cool too!

Dave

DNS Reptiles

Corallus and Chondros make some of the best display animals there are in the snake world. However, many of them ALSO make some of the WORST "lap pets"!, the specific name "caninus" says it all!..LOL

That's a nice lookin' youngster you have there Dave. I had a nice pair of those many years ago,..the male was patternless.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Thanks Doug. She is pretty cool and a joy to work with. Cleaning up a cage only once a month can be a joy sometimes compared to the multiple times a week for the milks!

Dave
DNS Reptiles

Thanks everyone for all the info. and suggestions. I'm thinking I'm going to go for it. The snakes won't really be "display" animals....just like to actually see them out and it sounds like they'll be like that eventually. My big PI king (L.g.getulus X floridana) isn't out all the time, but from time to time she comes out to check things out. Sounds like they're about the same and I'm sure there will be some differences from individual to individual. One last question...more on the care side. I know they like it cool and I don't have a problem not heating there cages and the room is only set at room temp., but in the summer it can get a bit toasty in the room....sometimes up to 90F. I know it's not preferable for them, but will it be harmful for them? I can cool them with misting and exhaust fans on the cages....but there's only so much I can do. Think this might be the last thing that might prevent me from getting them. Again, thanx ahead of time for any advice or info.

Roy

Well, in all honesty, ambient temps getting to, and around 90 degrees are too hot for a number of colubrids, Black Milks being one of them. These snakes are from montane areas of Costa Rica and Panama where the air is humid, and somewhat cooler, which is probably why they undergo the ontogenic change to a solid black, for thermoregulation from the sun.

Misting and fans are great for cooling humans and other mammals that perspire, but I don't think that will do anything to lower the ACTUAL ambient temperature. Do some experimenting with it.

Can you see about insulating the room a little better?

In any case, a good quality RELIABLE thermometer is a MUST, placed directly on the substrate in the enclosure where the snake will ACTUALLY be. Also, maybe when the temps get too high, you could bring the cage inside to the living quarters where it would be much more comfortable for the snake.

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I agree with Doug. 90 degrees is WAY too hot for gaigeae. I've actually seen black milks relentlessly circling their enclosures with their mouths open when the temps got into the mid 80s. If you're going to get some, please make sure you can control the temps in the 70s. They will thrive if you do.

Good luck!

Dave

DNS Reptiles

Buggar! I was afraid of that. My herp room is very small (an old office) and even though there is an A/C vent in it, it's very hard to keep the temps. down, with all the lights that are running in it...I also grow orchids in there, when it gets really toasty outside. Guess I'll have to stick with some sort of Lampro. more akin to my PI king (had her for 18yrs. now and she does very well). Thank you for all the help and maybe if I get a place with a furnished basement I can keep some L.t.gaigae there.

Roy

Sorry dude, but unless you are going with arboreals you aren't going to find any colubrids that are as active as your garters.

And I agree with the others that 90 won't work for black milks, but to be perfectly honest I am sure your garters and kings really don't appreciate it either. They might survive because they are hardy, but they sure don't like it.

If you want my .02 I would tell you that concerning yourself with the cool temps is more improtant than the high basking temps. You mentioned that the room was too hot because of all the heat lights ect... ever think that in the summer maybe you don't need them?

Also, undertank heaters will give you much more direct heat and much less heat thrown off into the room compared to lights.

Thanx for the advice. Actually the lights are not for the snake cagse, they're for the orchids I also grow in the same room (as said in my previous post). I'm very limited on space or I would not have things this way. All of my other kings and garters have done fine and bred for several years for me. They don't experiance those high temps. very often and for very short periods. I have all heaters on thermostats and also have a thermostatically controlled exhaust fan on the window during the warmer months....just sometimes when it's damn hot outside, it's hard to keep it cool inside. I'm looking at building a new home (have to get a nice parcel of land first) and will be totally designing a herp. room for all my needs (right now they're just in an small, old office space). Just have to avoid the more temp. sensitive species in the mean time.