Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello, just a quick question about feeding rats vs mice. I've been feeding my corn snake mice fuzzies for a few years now. It's time to up him to the next size, but someone told me to feed him rats instead of mice. I'm not breeding him and do not want to grow him fast. What do you guys think?

Personally, I have never fed rats to a corn snake (whether I intended to breed them or not) and don't think it is necessary. Did your friend tell you what they thought were the benefits of feeding rats? Just curious.

Rob

They said something about how it's better for them nutritionally and easier for them to digest. I thought it was weird too because I have never heard of feeding rats to a corn snake. My guy has been fine on mice since I got him. So should I just go up to hopper mice?

A good rule of thumb is to feed a prey item that is as big around as the snake at the snakes biggest part. If your snake has been on fuzzies for a couple of years, it may be ready for weanlings or larger but you will have to look at the snake and the food item and judge. I know that is vague but it is hard to say for sure without seeing the snake and the food (one persons hopper may be another persons fuzzy). A fully adult corn can easily eat a fully adult mouse. Hope this helps.

Rob

>>They said something about how it's better for them nutritionally and easier for them to digest. I thought it was weird too because I have never heard of feeding rats to a corn snake. My guy has been fine on mice since I got him. So should I just go up to hopper mice?

The thought is, a snake does not have to digest fur. So the stomach does not have to pass the hair, nails, teeth through the system.

I just wonder is this better? A 2 year old corn should be on mice. Mice in the wild have fur. Why feed a 10 day old rat that has no fur? Maybe the fur is a kind of fiber to the snake? I have no idea. I do try to match what a feed animal to what the herp eats in the wild. Yes a corn may eat a pinky rat. But I'll bet he eats far more larger completely grwon mammals too.

IMO of course
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

Big Tom

I remember reading that a human can survive on a pure mouse diet, but that one has to eat the whole mouse, fur and all. I guess it is a sort of fibre.

When I feed chicken wings, theres far less poo, but a lot more urates - at least from the snakes...

John D
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.1 Eastern Kingsnakes

I recall burms on chicken. Ick,, and tegus on eggs and bil jac,, NAAAAAAAAAAAASTY!

Again I have no idea what is best. I would presume corns eat a lot of things. Some lizards, some various mice. Maybe a bird or two. Domestic mice are convenient, but is it really complete compared to the natural diet? We dare not rotate a lot of odd feed items as they may get stuck on something hard to provide. So, to me mice, or if you hav a big corn rats. Just not obese mice as a regular diet for a big corn. My first corn was an accidental bloodred. How I got into corns and bloodreds too. She was an amazing eater, like my insane male. She would take a medium size rat. Sadly she died after her first clutch.

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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

There is no need to ever switch a corn snake to rats. They can eat mice thoughout their entire lives. There is no added nutritional value that rats have over mice. Though there is no harm in feeding a corn snake rats either.

Tim

Third Eye

I think for faster growth ounce per ounce rat pinkies are more nutritious than mice of the same size. Less fur and more meat!

I know when you're trying to put weight back on a skinny snake, a pinky or fuzzy rat is the faster way to go in regaining that weight, presumably because it contains more fat than a fully-boned, fully-toothed, fully-furred mouse.

But is fat nutritious? I'm not so sure about that.

Tim

I'm not aware of any nutrirional differences between rats and mice. I feed my Creamsicle small rats, as well as large/jumbo mice. She doesn't seem to care and eats both with gusto. Generally, I prefer to give her rats, simply because its a bigger meal and I don't have to feed her as often.

You won't stop your snake from growing long by feeding it less. However, you can reduce the chance of obesity by not overfeeding.

John D

Here's my girl...

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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.1 Eastern Kingsnakes

I think it's important that people base their care information on something better than "someone told me to..." without stopping to consider that information is only as good as its source and without consulting the many good sources of corn snake information out there, namely the recent books that have come out.

With that in mind, there's a good piece in the "articles" section of RodentPro's website titled "Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey" which gives the actual nutritional breakdown of mice and rats (as well as a heck of a lot of other things).

That's a nice creamsicle!

Tim

Third Eye

I gave my new creamsicles a choice. I put a hopper mouse (f/t) in along with a pinky rat(f/t) and in each case, they went for the pinky rat first. Scientific? Absolutely not. And I will probably continue to feed them both. They are young and growing like weeds. And obviously not picky eaters.

>>I think it's important that people base their care information on something better than "someone told me to..." without stopping to consider that information is only as good as its source and without consulting the many good sources of corn snake information out there, namely the recent books that have come out.
>>
>>With that in mind, there's a good piece in the "articles" section of RodentPro's website titled "Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey" which gives the actual nutritional breakdown of mice and rats (as well as a heck of a lot of other things).
>>
>>That's a nice creamsicle!
>>

I decided to look up the information on RodentPro

I had always believed rats to contain more fat then mice basically making them less healthy for corns...
BUT....
an adult mouse, 10 grams, is approximately 55.8% protien and 23.6% fat.
A neonate rat the same size as an adult mouse, 10 grams, is approximately 56.1% protien and 27.5% fat..
I don't remember the ash content but it was pretty much the same as well.
So, as far as adult mice and neonate rats go there really isn't a significant difference...except in price...lol

adult mice are 61.8% protien and 32.6% fat but I don't think I have seen very many corns that would/should or could take adult rats.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Thanks Tim!

That's a looker you've got there! Is that a boy or a girl?
Since my studly male died last year my girl has been kinda lonely....

Here's one of their spawn from about 6 years ago...

JohnD

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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.1 Eastern Kingsnakes

That's my female. She's been producing for 6 years. My male is not as pale, but he's got a zigzag pattern and when bred to the female produces some babies with abberant patterns. I also have a het female (rootbeer) with a zigzag pattern. Below is a pic of my male.
Tim

Third Eye

>You won't stop your snake from growing long by feeding it less. >However, you can reduce the chance of obesity by not >overfeeding.

Maybe I am not understanding this right? But if you feed a young snake less, I believe it will cut back on it's overall length. But this applies to the earlier years, mainly 1-3 I would presume.

Also, Tim pointed out the competition of a pinky rat being fattier than a mouse of the same size. I would guess less calcium too? I'll read that info on rodent pro in a sec.

A few post say things in generalities. "Rats have the same nutrition as a mouse". I'd say yes, at the same age of a mouse and rat. But I sell a lot of feed. And most people switching to a rat, want a rat the size or just a little larger than a mouse. That's a rat pup, not a fully developed rat.

I totally agree with Tim, it will put on weight, but if the snake will never grow large enough to get off rat pups (2-3 weeks old) I would lean to the idea it would just use all that fat to become overweight, much like me!

So, when I have a person that wants to switch to rats, I want to find out if it will be big enough to take a 6-7 week old rats. I feel by that age the rats are more lean and similar to a mouse.

IMHOOC
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

People always want the biggest mouse I have for a bigger snake. But an overweight mouse is much like feeding it fuxxies higher in fat. Add in that for a corn to eat a massive mouse it is prolly big, and older. Now they are feeding it a fat mouse.

I'm no dietitian, but that cannot be good in the long run.

PS african fuzzy rats breed like weeds. They are the perfect size rodent to breed for corns. I love to make predictions. And I'll predict in 5 years they will be huge in the feed market. Unless our gov't gets stupid on us.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

Hey Big Tom!
Man, I always enjoy your posts.

>>PS african fuzzy rats breed like weeds. They are the perfect size rodent to breed for corns.

Interesting.
I'm kinda partial to Gerbils. If I was raising my own feeders, that's what I'd go with.

>>Unless our gov't gets stupid on us.

Whaddya mean "gets"?

John D
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.1 Eastern Kingsnakes

You will love them. Breed fast, they grow fast. Very low urine. The only think I see is prone to mite. But in a shop and stuff coming in and out all the time, it's an on going issues.

Only thing they will trry to bite, but have never had one latch on.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

>>>You won't stop your snake from growing long by feeding it less. >However, you can reduce the chance of obesity by not >overfeeding.
>>
>>Maybe I am not understanding this right? But if you feed a young snake less, I believe it will cut back on it's overall length.

Big Tom,

I was trying to say that its not a good idea to try to restrict a snake's growth by feeding it less.

My thought was garbbled by my fawlty keyboaRd. It had nothing to do with any lost brain cells...really...I mean...um...wha?

"Must kill all humans..."
-Bender

John D

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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.1 Eastern Kingsnakes

er ahh ??? HHMMMM

I deleted the post and forgot? Let me get back to you! lol

And I agree.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

your snake should be fine on mice for ever, i recently upgraded to hampsters because they are just easier to take care of
Foot Hill Reptiles