Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Greg Graziani and I have discussed part of this before, I hope he reads this and responds.

Mojo & Mojo makes super mojave, a white snake. Lesser & Lesser also makes a white snake. I believe it is a "whiter snake" than the super mojo.

The super mojo white snake, when bred to a normal should produce all mojave.

The white snake from the lesser breeding, when bred to a normal should produce all lessers.

Am I correct so far?

When you cross lesser & mojave you also get a white snake. Is it whiter than the super mojo, but not quite as white as the lesser & lesser white snake?

When you breed the lesser & mojo white snake to a normal, what do you get? Would there be lessers and mojaves, maybe along with normals? Or would there be something in between lesser and mojave.

Since the lesser & mojave white snake is a combo (sort of like the bumble bee is a combo between spider & pastel) when it is bred to a normal would it have a 25% chance per egg of producing a white snake. A bee when bred to a normal has a 25% chance per egg of producing a bee. I don't think this is the case after talking to Greg. The first conversation we had, we thought it was possible. Later when we spoke about it again, he thought it wouldn't happen. I don't remember the explanation, he used lots of tech terms that I can't remember.

I remember reading on this or perhaps another forum at least a couple of years ago about someone claiming lesser and mojos were essentially the same thing. They claimed they saw lesser and mojo hatch from the same clutch. Everyone thought they were crazy. Maybe both could hatch in one clutch, if the white snake combo was a parent.

Sorry this is so long, Thanks Mike

The way I understand it. The Lesser and Mojave breeding makes the cleanest looking super. A super bred to a normal can't make a super. Each parent has to carry at least one gene for the super form. Claude

Mojave and Lesser

I believe that is correct. For it to be correct though, it would make the lesser and mojo the same thing or at least very similar. That way the cross would be a super form of the two and not a combo. When I say combo, I meant like the bumble bee is a combo of two different morphs, and not a super.

What would you get breeding the lesser mojo white snake to a normal?

"For it to be correct though, it would make the lesser and mojo the same thing or at least very similar."

Right. Lesser and Mojave are alleles or variations of the same gene.

"What would you get breeding the lesser mojo white snake to a normal?"

Each egg would have the following genetic probabilities:

50% Mojave
50% Lesser

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Louis Kirkland
Cornerstone Reptiles

Good questions!

I think your right on, except that I believe that a BEL from Lesser x mojave would not produce any normals when bred to a normal.

I've not done the pairing but this is based on my understanding that although lessers and mojaves look different they are still mutations of the same allele, which is why they produce a "super" when bred together.

Hope this helps and anyone jump in and correct me if i'm wrong.

Justin
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J. Kobylka Reptiles

Warning: Snakes have been shown to cause death in laboratory rats.

That's the tech term Greg used to explain it. If you wouldn't get any normals, what would you get, lessers and mojo, or something in between.
Mike

Lesser to Mojave= Blue eyed Lucy. BEL x normal = Lessers and Mojaves. Nothing in between and no normals. I hope that helps.

soooo.... just to screw things up some more....

What if...

BEL x Normal = lessers and mojos
BEL x lesser= ???
BEL x mojo= ???

just curious....

Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

Assuming BEL = mojo/lesser lucy...

BEL x Normal = lessers and mojos
BEL x lesser= mojo/lesser lucy, lesser/lesser lucy, mojo, lesser
BEL x mojo= mojo/lesser lucy, mojo/mojo lucy, mojo, lesser

awsome. Thanks for the info....

They are complex creatures aren't they!!

Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

to make it more complicated when breeding a mojo/lesser lucy to either a mojo or lesser, the lucy's that are made are unknow genetic makeup (except the super mojo). So breeding it to a lesser gives you white snakes that you have no idea of the make-up. Now as the prices come down and the general public really doesn't care what will be produced when breeding this isn't that big of a deal, but while these snakes are fetching thousands of dollars the problem can be a big one.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Good point. Some day I'd love to have a breeding group of white snakes from diverse lines like I think I saw Tom Baker post that he had put together. As those are bred together it will probably not be possible to keep track of which founding lines are present a given white snake. And there are still more new white snake complex lines being found.

Because lesser and mojave and butter are all on the same allele, would you get a white pied if you crossed each one individually with a pied like Ralph got with the lesser pied?

Seems logical enough to me.
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Happy Herping,
Jody Barnes
Royal Kreationz

My snakes aren't fat, they're big boned.

I think the term "allele" is one of those that can have slightly different meanings for different groups of biologists but I think in our case we would say that lesser, mojave, phantom, etc. are the same gene but different alleles (i.e. versions of that gene).

It's yet to be seen if all homozygous pieds that also happen to be lesser will be 100% white but it seem reasonable given how long pieds have been produced always having color on at least the head before the first lesser pied.

But, with the idea that mojave is a different mutant version of the same gene as lesser then it isn't guaranteed that the mojave pied will also be 100% white. Remember that a homozygous lesser looks different than a homozygous mojave. So a single mojave mutant copy might have a different effect on a homozygous pied than a single lesser mutant copy. Lesser and Mojave appear to be different versions of the same white snake gene which is apparently a different gene than the pied gene. The surprise for me was that the separate white snake mutation had an effect on the pied mutation. I wouldn't be surprised if the mojave pied was all white (now that I've gotten over the surprise of the lesser pied) but I wouldn't take it for granted that it will for sure work out that way because there are some differences between lesser and mojave.