Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,
I've posted about this before but now Im really starting to get impatient and worried with the whole subject. I've had my amel for a little over 2 years. In October she started giving me trouble with eating. I thought I'd found the problem but I guess I was wrong. She's eaten off and on. She didnt eat last week or the week before but ate a very small hopper the week before that. She's got a hide of 85F one of 75 and one of 68-70 and all of the aspen to burrow in. She's 37 inches and on adult mice. Last week she struck like I've never seen her strike before but didn't bother holding on to eat it. She's been put in a container overnight, but she just tries to escpape the whole time. I've exposed the brains and tried the Tuna trick also. She's got a 12 hour day/night cycle provided by a flourecent light. UTH and heat light for day and night heat. I was going to brumate her but Im still undecided. Is there anything you guys could think of? Im trying to feed again this tues. and next tues but if she doesnt eat, then she's going in my basement! Thank you guys for any help! It's greatly needed and appreciated .

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No, we're never gonna quit,Ain't nothin' wrong with it,Just actin' like we're animals - Nickelback, Animals

She probably has a good feeding response, but her biology is telling her to hunt down a place to brumate. If it were me, I would go ahead and shut her down for the winter.

But ONLY do this two weeks or so after her LAST meal so she can purge all of her contents, this will assure that things don't putrify(rot) in her intestinal tract. Think of it this way, she will be virtually zero maintainance for a couple months with the exception of checking water, and the occasional cleaning of some urates.LOL

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I know your temps are right, but your animal can sense the change of season and she is telling you it's time to brumate..

If she has not fed for 2 weeks or so you can start dropping the temp till she is down into the 60's and cool her till late Feb early March.. When you warm her back up her feeding will be back on track!

Godd Luck

~ Mike Russo

OK, I'll start dropping the temps friday so I can be around all weekend to make sure all goes as planned. Im a little bit worried and my mom'm not helping it any! Ha I hope everthing goes ok. Thank you guys. I'll keep you updated if you want.
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No, we're never gonna quit,Ain't nothin' wrong with it,Just actin' like we're animals - Nickelback, Animals

There's nothing wrong with the advice you're getting, regarding brumation. It does sound as though your snake has flipped the brumation switch ON, but it is not a foregone conclusion. Even if temperature is the stumulus for the fasting.

1. If your snake is not spending 80 % of it's daytime hours INSIDE the warm-side hide, it's body temperature is likely wrong. If the warm-side hide is too warm and/or not dark enough, snakes usually retreat to cage zones that may not be conducive to appetite and digestion. Regardless of the location of your thermometer, if your snake is not staying in that DIGESTING ZONE, all your efforts of heating are being wasted. If the temperature is correct in the primary hide in your cage, and if that hide offers another important utility (privacy and darkness), and if your snake is staying in that hide, but still refuses to eat, consider brumation. Of course, you only want to brumate if your snake is healthy. If stools are not normal, do not brumate. Atypical stools are a symptom of a problem that must be corrected quickly. If brumation is not adequate in terms of temperature, your snake's immune system can be compromised, and parasitic entities can gain the upper hand in the battle with your snake. Triple check temps INSIDE the primary hides before presuming your snake wants to brumate.

Re: lights over cages:
Corn snakes are essentially nocturnal. While they MAY benefit from light during the day, it does not necessarily follow that they like or NEED such lighting. Incandescent lights over cages (especially in winter) can contrubute to a decrease in ambient humidity (not a good thing), but among other overlooked dangers of those lights, retinal damage can result when the hide does not sufficiently protect your snake's eyes. In the absence of hands and eyelids to block UV radiation from their eyes, some snakes will not burrow into their cage's substrate where it's dark. Even if the warm-side hide in your cage is the correct temperature (only verifiable with a thermometer IN that hide), your snake may not utilize that hide if it does not offer the privacy they prefer. You have already observed that your snake is most active after dark. It's obvious they do not prefer brightly lit situations over dark ones. Hence, a primary hide must not only be the correct digesting appetite, but it must be dark enough to entice them to spend adequate time there.

SO, if you're certain it is 80F-85F INSIDE the hide, and if your snake spends most of the daytime hours in that hide, and if your snake's stools are normal, consider a cold, dormant period for your snake (15 days after its last meal). Otherwise, keep tweaking the cage conditions until you're certain you have provided the most primary digesting prerequisites. If you cannot offer a dark, cold (50F-65F) brumation, I recommend you keep working to make the cage more of a digesting environment for your snake.

Good luck,

Don
South Mountain Reptiles

For the past 2 days she's been on the warm side under the aspen. I did not feed yesterday because I planned to brumate Friday. When I was home for Christmas vacation she spent 1/3 of those 10 days in the warm hide and the other days in the cool hide. She knows it's warm over there because she burrows over there after she does eat. Sometimes it's almost like she's trying to brumate in the cage. I will confess that I know it's all my fault. It obviously cant be anybody elses. My problem is really my dad. Im 13 and I know what I need to get her to fix the whole problem. I just can never get past my dad and I just try to take the easy way out so I dont have to hear him complain to me. I honestly couldn't tell you what her stool looks like. It's been 3 weeks since she eaten and probably 2 since she's defecated. Do you think she'd be ok if I cooled her for a little while. I was just about to email you! Thank you for replying!
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No, we're never gonna quit,Ain't nothin' wrong with it,Just actin' like we're animals - Nickelback, Animals

What is WARM? Warm to you is not the same to me. Not the same to someone else and not the same to a snake. This is why we should utilize science. We shouldn't be saying "warm" or "cool". We should be talking numbers. What is the body temperature of the snake when it's on the warm side of the cage?

To answer your question, if the snake is healthy, a proper brumation should not have an adverse affect on it.

Don
South Mountain Reptiles

With her on the side ranging from 82-85 in the hide she's 75 because she's sprawled out in the front. So technically, she's not getting any heat but that from the heat light. I used a pro products heat gun for that BTW. While I was at it I checked the surface temp of the "warm" hide and it was 85.
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No, we're never gonna quit,Ain't nothin' wrong with it,Just actin' like we're animals - Nickelback, Animals

Also, reflecting back on you first response. She seems to not like the dark hides. She spends a lot of her time in the 70F hide which is a half log covered with some fake plants. The warm hide is the most dark out of them all! She's definately the most challenging snake out of the 2 to keep!
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No, we're never gonna quit,Ain't nothin' wrong with it,Just actin' like we're animals - Nickelback, Animals

She's talking to you. I'm not exactly sure what she's saying, but it's temperature related. Something about the hide bothers her. Can you show us a picture of her. A corn will NOT lay out in the open like that in a cold place, unless there's something wrong with the warm-side hide, or as stated above, she wants to brumate. If she's not going to follow the rules, I'd let her vacation in Minnesota (brumate).

When you bring her up from brumation, if she's not hanging out in the warm parts of the cage, you won't have much time to change her mind, before she gets ill.

Keep us 411'd,

Don
South Mountain Reptiles

She wasnt out in the open, she was under the aspen. But thank you so much for all of your help so far! While she brumates I will invest in the supplies needed.
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No, we're never gonna quit,Ain't nothin' wrong with it,Just actin' like we're animals - Nickelback, Animals