Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I decided to pick up a pair if Sinaloans. I think these look very nice, I like the traditional wide banding, even though they are kind of apricot.

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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

I'm a big fan of the apricot... they look great to me!

Really like the deep golden color of his bands. Very nice. Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but I don't remember seeing any Sinaloans w/ bands that color. Be really jazzed if I could fing a juvie female w/ bands like that.

reako45

Great looking snakes but no way are they siniloans.They could have some siniloan in them but they are more conanti and or oligozona than anything.They are a mix for sure. Were did you get them?

Shannon

Somethin' funny goin' on there with that golden yellow, as well as the snout!

conanti(wide RBR) could very well be the culprit in this crime!

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Hey Anthony.
Are these the "apricot sinaloans" that we discussed many threads ago that you were getting from a local breeder? The ones that strongly resembled Vinny's apricot colored sinaloae?
I have to agree with Doug and Shannon with the definite possibility that these are more than just sinaloans and that there is a strong conanti or oligozona influence in there as well. They are still pretty cool looking snakes regardless.
Nathan

Hey Nathan,
These are the apricots, but not the orange colored ones. if you look back at that posting, they look very very similar to the apricots that Vinny posted. I honestly don't see where these resemble connets and those do not. Maybe it's me. They all have similar white on the snouts, thin apricot banding, and a similar red coloration.

Here's the posting: http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1445870,1446425

Now I can't wait to post the orange ones...lol
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

The snout pattern says there's some other influence in those snakes. What's their lineage? I've seen some sinaloan X pueblan crosses bred back to sinaloans that have a similar snout. Just a thought.

-Cole

I would think pueblan influence would widen the white bands, these are pretty narrow. I don't know...lol
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

It certainly may, but things can be screwed up in back-crosses. From reading the posts below, it sounds like your animals are likely pure sinaloans. Nice looking critters, either way.

-Cole

I saw Vinny's post that you were talking about, and they ARE cool looking,..but in addition to what some of us posted regarding these already, I have to also really wonder about what Vinny stated in his own post about him going back to the show a number of times, and NEVER saw the guy again, or got his name either.

Hmmmmm,....I see a suspicious pattern developing here!..LOL

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

They're odd snakes for sure but only the snout resembles any of the existing stock of conanti or oligozona. The red is too clean for either conanti or olig and the white/apricot too narrow for campbelli.
However, the old US line of conant was fairly clean and could be passed off as a sinaloan so it's conceivable that those hatchlings are a cross of old US conant and sinaloan.
Other possibilities:
Doug Mongs old olig stock that vanished.
Brian Richardsons (old stock)olig may have been crossed with ??.
I had F2s of both the Trumbower and Applegate sinaloan lines and seen a hundred sinaloans but never a snout like those.
Pics of the parents would be nice.......
Jeff

Jeff-
The mother is a Lavender Albino and the father is a T neg Ghost.....

Just messing. Actually read the next post
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

I do have to agree with Jeff on this Anthony. Seems like most all of us agree that the markings across the snout resembles the current conanti or oligozona and that the rest of the animal looks more sinaloan. Although, it does make sense that these "sinaloans" could have been, at one point, crossed with the old lines years ago, especially since you mentioned to me that the original female parent is 18 years of age. That goes back quite a ways.
Again, regardless, they are sweet looking.
Nathan

I was just making light of the other Jeff's extreme theory. No offense meant in any way.
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

LOL...no worries mate..I figured as much. I have avoided that entire conversation and thread all together...
Nathan

Hi Anthony, just got in from work and received your e-mails and pictures. From what I am gathering, through your sources and from the research that you have done, these may in fact be more sinaloan than anything else. Even though your source is a reputable guy with years of experience, it is always hard to 100 percent pinpoint the exact origin of particular animals and lines. You may want to even key the snakes out to see what you get...
Most would agree that these are not your classic looking sinaloae, that is obvious. The odd patterning and coloration in the snout throws most people off however, I have seen many sinaloans and other triangulum with unnatural looking spots, flecks and flames on their heads. It will be interesting to see what develops of these markings. When you put it all together, it sounds to me like these are the same exact line that Vinny is working with.
Thanks again for sending me the information.
Nathan

Nathan- Thanks to you and Shannon for sharing all your experience.

For everyone else:
These came from Bob Deptula (the same guy mentioned above in reference to hypo coastals). The adult female is an 18 yr old Sinaloan which he said he now has been breeding every other year because it takes her that long at this point to regain substantial weight. Previously he was breeding her regularly.

The adult male he received from Wes Pollock about 10 yrs ago. He gave me Wes's number and his cousins name who Bob is friends with and facilitated the deal.

It is my understanding that these are both reputable breeders.

So if there is something other then Sinaloan in these snakes it could possibly have been naturally occuring in one or the other blood lines? 18 years ago there was little info available on Conants, and I'm not even sure any were publicly available?

I do know that clutch mates to these that were not apricot did not have white markings on their face, and a deeper red coloring.
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

No problem man, glad Shannon and I could help. Too bad Vinny couldn't chime in..he's probably studying genetics with his girlfriend right now..LOL.
Again, sounds like you have received animals from some reputable breeders and are getting information from reliable sources.
I don't know much about the original line of conanti that we saw here in the U.S. so in all honesty, I can't help you with that question. Hopefully, Shannon, Scott, Doug or Jeff can give you a little more insight to the origins. Hell, 18 years ago I was only 13. I was busy catching watersnakes in the ditch and didn't even know what a conanti was....LOL.
Nathan