Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Would someone care to take a shot at the question ?
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TnK

Imperator populations from Islands.
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

Assumed or Documented ?

>>Imperator populations from Islands.
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>>http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
>>http://www.BoaList.com/
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TnK

Well if I ever get any, I want documented stock.

Doesn't change the definition of insular.

I would say that some people think they have insular boas, when they have something else.
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

Why isn't there a concern for correctness with this ?
There is way to much "something else going on".
Is the responsibility on those that tell the lies or the ones that support the ones that tell the lies ?
Early importation methods of Central American bci can in no way support the Insular term for the understood strains..

What are the true Insular BCI ?

>>Well if I ever get any, I want documented stock.
>>
>>Doesn't change the definition of insular.
>>
>>I would say that some people think they have insular boas, when they have something else.
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>>http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
>>http://www.BoaList.com/
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TnK

Not really sure where this is going.

But, there are Cay Caulker, Crawl Cay, Hog Island, and Corn Island boas in the US.

I'm sure there are others as well. Those are the "big 4".

And I know a lot of supposed examples of the above 4 are not the true example.

Some of the people that no the truth don't want to share. The whole "stepping on toes" issue.

I think the hobby should be more open and honest. There's a lot of information that goes on behind the scenes that won't ever reach the public eye.
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

I think its just a qualifying descriptive term of the original legitimate founder stock and the wild population.
The term is used rather loosely to describe the phenotype form in captivity.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

And Pearl Island Boa?? Seems I've received a lecture or two about those. ??

Insular is an adjective describing "Islands", from every source I can get my hands on. Dictionary, and "authorities" on insular Boa.
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Richard Carew
Sunset BCI
You laugh at me cuz I'm different! I laugh at you cuz you're all the same.
Stop Inhumane and Illegal Practices

Yup Richard, Pearl Island boas are insular boas being that they come from the Pearl Islands. I didn't mention them because he was asking about BCI.

Your definition of insular is the same that I have always used. That's why I don't really get the point of the thread. Now if someone was calling say a mainland Honduran boa insular, that would be entirely wrong since it is a mainland boa.

We should talk again sometime.
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

No real point to the thread,just idle chatter on one of many misunderstood aspects of BCI phenotypes and the proper references used to describe them.
As for the Hondurans,your correct there are no Insular Honduran Boa in captivity.

>>Your definition of insular is the same that I have always used. That's why I don't really get the point of the thread. Now if someone was calling say a mainland Honduran boa insular, that would be entirely wrong since it is a mainland boa.
>>
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TnK

Not to say there "arent any" Insular Honduran Boa,because there are Boa on many of the Honduran Islands.Theres just not any that can be traced/documented to Insular origins in captivity as we understand it today.

>>No real point to the thread,just idle chatter on one of many misunderstood aspects of BCI phenotypes and the proper references used to describe them.
>>As for the Hondurans,your correct there are no Insular Honduran Boa in captivity.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Your definition of insular is the same that I have always used. That's why I don't really get the point of the thread. Now if someone was calling say a mainland Honduran boa insular, that would be entirely wrong since it is a mainland boa.
>>>>
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>>TnK
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TnK

I haven't checked a map recently, but aren't Cayos de los Cochinos off the coast of Honduras?
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

Yup ! sho'nuff !
Got any CITIES on Hog Islands ? Any Taxo on Hog Islands ?

>>I haven't checked a map recently, but aren't Cayos de los Cochinos off the coast of Honduras?
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>>http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
>>http://www.BoaList.com/
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TnK

The imports of Hog Island boas occurred long ago. I don't know the CITES standings then. Long before I was in the hobby, possibly before I was born.

Hog Island boas were exported so rapidly that they were NEVER taxonomically defined. They were presumed extinct from the islands.

Recent work on the Islands has found wild populations that are being researched currently.

You would have to speak with some of the Hog Island breeders who were around back then, got the animals from the source, and have the information you seek.
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

Here is a list of some of the Islands in that area
Not all of which have confirmed boa populations or sightings
No possible chance of a known Hog Isle boa being anywhere but the Cochino's ? Hmmm ?
The tides roll from the east if that will help.

Cayo Cochino "Big"
Cayo Cochino "Little"
Cayo Timón
Cayo Zacate
Cayo Arena
Cayo Bolanos
Cayo Paloma
Cayo Gallo
Cayo Mayor
Cayo Menor
Southwest Cay
Raggedy Cay
Sandy Cay
Artificial Cay
Morgan Cay
Water Cay
Northeast Cay
George’s Cay
Josh’s Cay
Clark’s Cay
Jake’s Cay
Halfmoon Cay
Kiatron’s Cay
Pond Cay
Southwest Cay
Barbareta
Little (Pepper’s) Cay
Sandy islet (no name) between Little and Pigeon Cays
Pigeon Cay
Falls Mehegeny
Busher Mehegeny
Morat

>>The imports of Hog Island boas occurred long ago. I don't know the CITES standings then. Long before I was in the hobby, possibly before I was born.
>>
>>Hog Island boas were exported so rapidly that they were NEVER taxonomically defined. They were presumed extinct from the islands.
>>
>>Recent work on the Islands has found wild populations that are being researched currently.
>>
>>You would have to speak with some of the Hog Island breeders who were around back then, got the animals from the source, and have the information you seek.
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>>http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
>>http://www.BoaList.com/
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TnK

You're beginning to sound like one of those "scale counters" now.
The devil is always in the details, isn't it. lol
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

LOL!! With unconfirmed reports of harvesting Hogs just off and right at the coastal mainland it should make one question the actual range of an animal NO ?

>>You're beginning to sound like one of those "scale counters" now.
>>The devil is always in the details, isn't it. lol
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>>"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
>>John Crickmer
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TnK

Hey. I'm on your side. Just a little humor. I've got a Hog that looks 50% mainland.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Ya got me there.

Guess I'm sorta naive and misinformed on a lot of these insular Boas. But I got a strong back, I'm still digging. I've heard LOTS of different stuff on those red bellied Hondurans. I even own a couple, and still find out new stuff about them that I thought I already knew.
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Richard Carew
Sunset BCI
You laugh at me cuz I'm different! I laugh at you cuz you're all the same.
Stop Inhumane and Illegal Practices

Collegiate dictionary, 11th edition.

Insular 1a f, relating to or constituing and island b: dwelling or situated on an island {~ residents} 2: characteristic of an isolated people esp: being, having or reflecting a narrow provincial viewpoint.

I could go on

To me that would refer to Bci imported from any of the islands surrounding Central America.

Now legitamacy of import documentation is a whole 'nother issue. ...

Amie

Exactly !
Add to this the "locality" term and it appears the two are used "synonymously"(I think would be the word?)when in fact their two entirely different words with different meanings.
Readings from Top Sites and Forum postings allow this to go unchecked and many people are often getting their "first" information on a subject and its incorrect.Some of the brightest Icons in the Hobby actually use incorrect labeling to generate exclusiveness to pad their sales pitches.(ya dont say)

The buddy system affords support of such nonsense and some people go for years not understanding there is a definitive difference and in some instances its nothing more then a scam.

>>Collegiate dictionary, 11th edition.
>>
>>Insular 1a f, relating to or constituing and island b: dwelling or situated on an island {~ residents} 2: characteristic of an isolated people esp: being, having or reflecting a narrow provincial viewpoint.
>>
>>I could go on
>>
>>To me that would refer to Bci imported from any of the islands surrounding Central America.
>>
>>Now legitamacy of import documentation is a whole 'nother issue. ...
>>
>>Amie
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TnK

Yeah, both terms do get used interchangeably most of the time. Locality being a much broader term in my opinion (I could get the true defination of that one too)

I have learned to take most of the issue of locality with a grain of salt. But it doesn't stop me from buying "locality" boas, I just try to check my sources more thoroughly.

Unfortunately the almight buck does play a big part in this hobby. I do my part by NOT buying from people I don't trust.

Amie

On a side note, I just got a new locality boa a few minutes ago...yup, he's documented! Wouldn't sit still for pictures though

It's all about sales and a good undocumented provenance story to the naive and misguided. That's what perpetuates the myth.
Just a whole lot of shameless self-promotion by a bunch of good old carny snake oil salesmen.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Far to many flock to pay posterior om-age to the Deities that hold those sacred scrolls.Most of which jump from forum to forum looking for the next Revival,once they play out they move to another town.

>>It's all about sales and a good undocumented provenance story to the naive and misguided. That's what perpetuates the myth.
>>Just a whole lot of shameless self-promotion by a bunch of good old carny snake oil salesmen.
>>jsc
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>>"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
>>John Crickmer
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TnK

>>>2: characteristic of an isolated people esp: being, having or reflecting a narrow provincial viewpoint.
>>>

Now THAT is definitely interesting. Didn't know that.
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Richard Carew
Sunset BCI
You laugh at me cuz I'm different! I laugh at you cuz you're all the same.
Stop Inhumane and Illegal Practices