Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey everyone,
my wife purchased two corsnakes for me on my birthday on Dec 3rd from a petstore. They had been caged together at the store. They both had runny stool that smelled real bad when they first came home.

I took stool samples to the vet that came back negative, he gave me an antibiotic for them (not sure of the name if needed I still have the bottle) I did 5 treatments of 12cc's for each animal (tube down throat to stomach) I fed them while doing this treatment and everything was fine they never refused food.

Since the treatment the male has deficated about 3 times all have been normal looking and odor wise. I fed him last week with a large mouse and he accepted happily and deficated normally, but yesterday I fed him a hopper mouse and this morning he had regurgitated it. He is about 3 feet long.

I dont understand why he regurgitated this meal with normal stool and no problems feeding befor even after shoving a tube down his throat a day after he ate on a couple of occasions. Could it be from handling him for cleaning yesterday befor feeding or is it time for another trip to the vet? the female has not deficated since the last treatment but has taken 2 meals.

Any input is appreciated,
Shahe

Sorry temps are around 80 degrees at his hot spot takes up about a quarter of his ten gallon tank, the rest of his tank is about room temp which in my house is about 70-75 degrees. Fresh water changed ever other day and two hides. Paper towels supstrate for quarantine.

it was most likely the handling. If your snake has good stools and held down a large mouse a week ago I dont see why he would have regurged a smaller one..

Sounds like your temps are good.

byron.d

The only thing that has me worried is, while giving him his medicine I would:
Pull him out of his tank. Restrain his head from moving. Force his mouth open with a q-tip long ways. Shove a 12 inch tube down his throat covered in KY jelly until I couldnt go anymore. Shoot the medicine and water down the tube.
Then, pull the tube back out.

I did this two seperate times AFTER I had fed him and no regurge!

When I clean his tank I pull him out and put him in a pillow case in a secure spot until im done.

Giving meds to the snake while he had a meal in his stomach, to me, would seem more stressful, then just pulling him out and going into a dark bag for a few mins. Sorry I just worry about my animals too much.

I recommend not handling a new snake until it is on a regular feeding routine. Handling causes stress.

I would not recommend purchasing a snake from a place that houses two in one cage, as this causes stress. Snakes are solitary by nature.

If the snakes seemed unhealthy (runny stools, smell bad), then I would have taken them back to the store for a refund. Stores that sell unhealthy animals should not be patronized. You're only rewarding them for their "bad behavior."

If stool samples came back negative, why did the vet give an antibiotic? I realize that it's hard to find a good reptile vet, but sometimes NOT going to a vet is better for the snake than going to bad one. Sticking a tube down a snakes throat 5 times causes a great deal of stress.

As far as regurging the hopper mouse, the extreme amount of stress your snake has gone through could have caused it. Also, I've noticed that occasionally some snakes have a hard time digestively "breaking through" the skin of rodents that are fully furred. If the snake is three feet long, I'd stick to feeding it adult mice.

Tim

Third Eye

I meant to say that AREN'T fully furred (like pinkies and fuzzies) in the last part of my post.

This is off the regurg subject, but am I the only one who doesn't think that picture looks like a corn snake?
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Kent

You're right Kent,

The snake in the photo is an amel Sonoran Gopher.

Tim

Yes the picture is one of my other snakes, I dont overly handle any of my snakes. In fact the only time I hold any of them is for cleaning or health inspections.

He has been on a feeding schedule of two hoppers a week (Sun and Weds) since Dec 3 2 weeks ago I put them on a mela once a week Sun only.

I dont want to take the snakes back to the store I like them and have spent time and money on them. Also, my vet prescribed the meds to see if they would help. He said the parasites might have been undectable under a microscope.

I do feel the meds have worked by seeing normal non-smelling waste now. My vet is a good herp vet, He cured my ball python of a R.I. and mouth rot, as well as helping a panther cham of mine get over an eye infection.

The first thing I did was seprate them into their own enclosures, I dont keep any of my snakes paired up. I will try feeding again in a couple weeks and see what happens. Thanks for any input by all who replied.

I will keep you updated on what happens.
Shahe

said about putting slits in the mouse. Dead of course, but makes it easier to digest.

I might add it is brumation period. Some snakes seem to have a great feeding responce just to eat, but instinctively want to brumate and regurg. I have just read that in here, but from the more long term breeder or I would not repeat it.

Maybe cut back on feeding just a little. If normal is 10 days go for 14. Just a thought.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

Your vet shouldn't have prescribed antibiotics for parasites. Antibiotics are for infections. Every reptile parasite I know of (as well as their eggs) can be seen under a microscope when doing a fecal exam.

Tim

What my vet gave me is a parasiticide-it is Metronidazole or Flagyl. I did the treatments already so no taking any of that back.

From what I have seen in the stool which instead of being yellowish and very runny with a bad smell, is now firm with the normal brownish-black and white and almost odorless.

He was also going to the bathroom about every two days after being fed before the treatment.

I was told by a very trusted vet for our other animals he is one of the best reptile vets in Las Vegas and after having success with some of my other animals he has seen I do trust him.

Thank you,
Shahe

I think your temperature is actually at fault here. Naturally, I'm not there to inspect the snake or other conditions and I'm not a vet, but from what you have said, I think it's either too hot or too cold in the cage.

If you're using paper towels on the bottom of the cage, no matter what the heat source, it's virtually impossible for you to be reading 80F. I'm guessing your thermometer is on the side glass of the cage. Put the thermometer where the snake is and I believe you'll discover the problem. Unless you're using a thermostat or rheostat, it's nearly impossible for the snake to be laying on an 80F surface.

We don't care what the temperature of the side glass is. We want to know the body temperature of the snake. That's where digestion and appetite are happening (or not happening). No other place in the cage really matters.

Good luck,

Don
South Mountain Reptlies

The temps are from a digital thermometer with a probe placed at the warm end and also the cool end. I just took the temps-hot spot 85 deg, under hide 77 deg, cool end 73 deg. Im going to get a temp gun soon then I can check the temp of the snake.

The temps are from a digital thermometer with a probe placed at the warm end and also the cool end. I just took the temps-hot spot 85 deg, UNDER HIDE 77 DEG, cool end 73 deg. Im going to get a temp gun soon then I can check the temp of the snake.

Above, you said 77 degrees under hide. This is where the snake should spend most of its life. If the temperature is not 80F-85F IN this hide, it will go elsewhere. Usually "elsewhere" spells disaster for your snake.

Don
South Mountain Reptiles

Is a 3 degree temp difference really that important to these guys? Ive never really owned any corn snakes before. I put their hides on the warmer end almost any time I open the cage, but usually they push it around. Most of the time its half off half on. The cages are temporary until I make sure they are ok to be put in the same room as my other snakes.

Thanks for all the replies,
Shahe

Try to make the hide more stationary. Yes, 3F can make a difference. We don't yet know why your snake is not staying in the warm-side, but I'm suspicious that the hide could be the wrong size for your snake. If it moves it around, it does not offer psychological security for the snake. And if it's a "mobile" hide, it's never the same temperature.
South Mountain Reptiles

The hides are the plastic type. I dont know the brand name but plastic box looking sort of. They are the medium size hides, Ive tried some other hides for both snakes when I first got them, they seemed to like these the best (always in them) so in they stayed.

I dont understand why he didnt regurge before...hes had an established feeding and defication schedule. Could he have been overfed with the large mouse? He deficated the day after he regurgitated.

Im going to try and feed him again next Sunday. I will update you guys with any new information. Thanks for the replies and help.

Stop that hide from moving around.

If you feed again, make it a meal roughly 1/4 the size you normally feed, but I don't recommend that unless your snake first spends at least 80% of one entire day inside the warm-side hide. I guarantee it wouldn't be able to digest even a pinky head on the cool side of the cage. Don't waste your time and your snake's health by feeding it unless it maintains an 80F-85F body temperature first. You're flirting with disaster unless the snake is warm enough to digest.
South Mountain Reptiles

You may not have had much to do with this app, but I see a lot of burns as the glass of tanks can not pull the heat away from the heat stick on pads. Then the snake sits on the top of the center of the UTH and BUZZZZZZZ. Belly burns. Last one we had was for a guy that writes for a local paper. After a $325 bill to a vet he brought it into us wrapped from the neck to cloaca in a burn wrap. No idea if this is good for snakes? But I was glad he spilled water all over it. Then I had to take it off. 2 months with neospoan and 2 sheds he looked pretty good.

My solution is cheapo ceramic floor tiles in the tanks over the UTH. Keeps the spot heat down a little as the natural materials pull heat off the center.

I love UTH for racks when setup correctly. Stickon pads seems to be dangerous to snakes in glass tanks. IMO of course
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

Many people add some kind of buffer on the top of the glass, over the UTH, but I'm positive that I have over 4,000 customers that at this time have nothing buffering their's and have experienced no problems. No burns. It's very unusual for corns to voluntarily (or accidentally) burn themselves. You can see this in the posts here. Some say their snakes are hanging out on the cool side of the cage. After discussion, we discover that the warm side of the cage is too hot. This usually means the snake knows it can survive cool temps, but not hot temps. They will hang out on the end of the cage that is 55F before they'll subject themselves to 90F . It's incredibly rare for a corn to burn itself in such a situation, but other species are famous for it. Based on customer testimonies, I estimate that one out every 10,000 corns kept in a glass aquarium with a UTH, actually burn themselves. Get out your titanium umbrellas for those meteorites that may hit ya. LOL.

Seriously, this is NOT a problem. Nothing wrong with what you're doing, but it's virtually unnecessary for corns. My next book shows examples of using tiles in the manner you describe. I show placing them on the bottom glass above the UTH and I show UT heaters affixed to the tile, so it's not permanently affixed to the bottom of the cage. Some of my customers cover the entire underside of the bottom glass with aluminum foil to disburse the heat more evenly, thereby decreasing the heat intensity at the UTH site. I've had customers show me where they sandwiched a UTH between two such tiles, so they could use newspaper or paper towels on the bottom glass.

If you can, please, link me to the article where someone had a corn snake that burned itself on glass. I'd like to speak to them. Are you sure it was a corn? This is not my way of saying it's impossible, but the frequency of this occurrence is so rare, it barely merits mention.
South Mountain Reptlies

I've not had 1 corn, now that you say that. 1 boa and about 6-8 ball pythons in 5 years or so. In fact it's how I got my first big ball females at a deal lol.

Thanks for teh time. I know your a busy guy.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

Flexwatt works great between tiles. Sealed with heat silicone. Flag stone is nice for lizards as it helps wear nails down a bit.

For the avgerage reader, PLEASE don't make something if you do not FULLY understand what you are making.

Thanks again Don S.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com