Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Some people like to feed several smaller rodents to hatchlings and yearlings and some like to feed 1 larger rodent to them.

What's everyone's opinion on the healthiest method and which method the animal grows faster?
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0.1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
1.0.0 Yellow Anaconda
1.1.0 Suriname Red Tail Boa
1.1.0 Guyana Red Tail Boa
1.0.0 Coral Sunglow Boa
0.1.0 Coral Albino Boa
0.1.0 Arabesque Het Albino Boa
0.1.0 DH Sunglow Boa
1.1.0 Red Blood Python
1.2.0 Jungle Carpet Python (females VPI Bloodline)
0.1.0 Burmese Python (Rescue)
0.1.0 Albino Retic (Lavender)
0.1.0 Avicularia Versicolor
1.0.0 Cat

Boas and growing fast, are not two things that go well together.
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

I agree, i was just curious on everyone's opinion with this since i hear alot of people say they think it's better to feed several small rodents oposed to 1 big one/normal sized one.
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0.1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
1.0.0 Yellow Anaconda
1.1.0 Suriname Red Tail Boa
1.1.0 Guyana Red Tail Boa
1.0.0 Coral Sunglow Boa
0.1.0 Coral Albino Boa
0.1.0 Arabesque Het Albino Boa
0.1.0 DH Sunglow Boa
1.1.0 Red Blood Python
1.2.0 Jungle Carpet Python (females VPI Bloodline)
0.1.0 Burmese Python (Rescue)
0.1.0 Albino Retic (Lavender)
0.1.0 Avicularia Versicolor
1.0.0 Cat

I personally only feed one prey item per meal. And it would probably be considered small by what I have seen others consider normal.

Prey size should not be larger than the diameter of the snake, provided it is a healthy boa with good body structure.

Frequency has a lot more factors to consider. Age, sex, metabolism, subspecies, etc.
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

I would find some different people to listen to !

>>I agree, i was just curious on everyone's opinion with this since i hear alot of people say they think it's better to feed several small rodents oposed to 1 big one/normal sized one.
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TnK

I've done both with my boas, but the two smaller meals only if I have prey way on the small side that I need to use up. From what I understand, the usual argument for two small animals as opposed to one larger/normal one is that it is easier to digest, but I think that may be too "humanized" in that people relate it to us eating that way. No matter how many you feed, if it is all at the same time, the mass of prey the boa will be digesting is about the same, is it not?

Feeding poop to poop is best, in my opinion, whether large or small food item.
You've got to hit the right temperature. Too hot - regurge. Too cool - regurge.
Warmer for larger, just not too hot.
You just really have to vary the food cycle, in my opinion.
Simulate seasonal fluctuations. If their gut becomes full of several meals, fast them till they empty their entire gut at least a few times a year. You've got to choreograph that with temps.
Hope this helps.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

In my opinion one prey item the diameter of the snake is all it needs. you push them they will likely die faster. My friend had that happen with a few of his snakes. pythons you can do that to a little more because they have a higher metabolism. they just take everything. Im thinking about a burm just for that reason. if one thing doesnt eat its food I can toss it to the burm and its gone.

Think of feeding a boa like trying to get with your dream girl take it slow and in a few years let the breeding begin.
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My Photobucket

I would never feed any snake "several" items, large or small. I'm guilty of feeding neos a couple (take that as TWO) small pinks, or TWO small fuzzies, as they grow. Just giving them a little leg up on life.
After 6 months, they ALL get one item, same thickness as their girth, no more frequent than twice a month. Some wait longer, depending on individuals, and how they are doing with it. Or if what I have is just a tad larger than them, I'll make them wait an additional week or so between meals.
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Richard Carew
Sunset BCI
You laugh at me cuz I'm different! I laugh at you cuz you're all the same.
Stop Inhumane and Illegal Practices

Hey Rick,

Just curious why you have that opinion. I prefer to
offer one prey item per meal as well, but right now I
have a bunch of (expensive) lizards that are smaller
than ideal. So I'm feeding my snake (Indigo, not a
boa) multiple lizards at one feeding. I'm sure
I'm not overfeeding him, since my philosophy is to err on the side of underfeeding.

Thanks!
Ed

>>I would never feed any snake "several" items, large or small. I'm guilty of feeding neos a couple (take that as TWO) small pinks, or TWO small fuzzies, as they grow. Just giving them a little leg up on life.
>>After 6 months, they ALL get one item, same thickness as their girth, no more frequent than twice a month. Some wait longer, depending on individuals, and how they are doing with it. Or if what I have is just a tad larger than them, I'll make them wait an additional week or so between meals.
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>>Richard Carew
>>Sunset BCI
>>You laugh at me cuz I'm different! I laugh at you cuz you're all the same.
>>Stop Inhumane and Illegal Practices

Indigos are entirely different from boas. They have incredibly fast metabolisms.
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
http://www.BoaList.com/

Oh, I know that. But Rick said "any snake."

But I'm still curious about boas specifically. Again,
I see no reason to feed multiple prey items at one feeding,
but the implication seems to be it would be detrimental to feed 2 or 3 small rats rather than a one larger rat. Is that because it's easier to overfeed snakes using the former? Assuming total mass of the 2 or 3 smaller rodents is equivalent to an appropriately sized single serving, are there any drawbacks?

Thanks,
Ed

>>Indigos are entirely different from boas. They have incredibly fast metabolisms.
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>>http://www.GilbertBoas.com/
>>http://www.BoaList.com/

Ed, Shoulda read any snake I own. I'm a Boa nut though, so that's what I own, and what was running through my mind.

But I still feel the same way about other species I've kept too. Crotalids for 15 yrs, and I've had many Cali Kings in the past 30 years. I even think every other week is generous for some, when you consider what they'd be getting in the wild.

I didn't always follow that rule though. It was developed over time from making mistakes. I used to feed my kings often, and multiple items, same as my Boa Constrictor, and rattlers. They as well as my earlier boas didn't live a very long life, like they should have. My first Boa, a young WC Suri, died at only about 8-9 yrs +/-. All her organs were covered in a Yellow fatty tissue, when we opened her up in 12th grade biology class. Never opened up any of the others, I just went and caught more.

My mom always told me I fed them too much. I shoulda listened better. But I did learn eventually.

I doubt in your case you are doing any harm. Yer guy is still perty young.
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Richard Carew
Sunset BCI
You laugh at me cuz I'm different! I laugh at you cuz you're all the same.
Stop Inhumane and Illegal Practices

Hey Rick,

Oh, I agree 100% with you, and I would venture to guess most
snake owners over-feed their snakes, and I think even young snakes can be over fed. I feed my little guy several lizards at a time since I don't want to waste the lizards, but they are small, and the way he acts, he would eat twice or thrice as many if I offered them.

I'm not sure about the stress and if it adversely affects the snake, but after just feeding him a few minutes ago, my worry
about feeding multiple prey items at once is that there is more
chance of him hurting himself. He doesn't exactly gingerly take a lizard off the tongs. (Nor did my BCI that I had a while back, and he had the size to do some damage.) He forcefully hurls himself at the lizard, but doesn't have great aim yet, so the more times he has to lunge, the more chance of him hurting himself. Last week, I tried feeding him by hand (with a glove on), and the dummy got my index finger instead. And he didn't want to let go. Needless to say, it took quite a while for me to get him off, since I didn't want to injure him.

Thanks,
Ed

>>Ed, Shoulda read any snake I own. I'm a Boa nut though, so that's what I own, and what was running through my mind.
>>
>>But I still feel the same way about other species I've kept too. Crotalids for 15 yrs, and I've had many Cali Kings in the past 30 years. I even think every other week is generous for some, when you consider what they'd be getting in the wild.
>>
>>I didn't always follow that rule though. It was developed over time from making mistakes. I used to feed my kings often, and multiple items, same as my Boa Constrictor, and rattlers. They as well as my earlier boas didn't live a very long life, like they should have. My first Boa, a young WC Suri, died at only about 8-9 yrs +/-. All her organs were covered in a Yellow fatty tissue, when we opened her up in 12th grade biology class. Never opened up any of the others, I just went and caught more.
>>
>>My mom always told me I fed them too much. I shoulda listened better. But I did learn eventually.
>>
>>I doubt in your case you are doing any harm. Yer guy is still perty young.
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>>Richard Carew
>>Sunset BCI
>>You laugh at me cuz I'm different! I laugh at you cuz you're all the same.
>>Stop Inhumane and Illegal Practices

It is not wise to encourage your boas to grow fast. They will end up with fat deposits and this will lead to their early death. We only feed mice for the first 6-9 months and then move to rats. The size of the rat is not of concern (1 larger, or two smaller) but the frequency of your feeding should be every 7-10 days. 10-14 days when they get older. Boas can not process the fat in their foods fast enough, and frequent over feeding is not heathy. You should feed a food item is about the size around as your snake, and your snake should not struggle to eat it. It should leave a small lump in its belly. In the wild these animals had more room to move around and food was not on a schedule. So they burned more calories searching and hiding.

It looks like your have a nice collection be patient you will make beautiful babies someday.

Lynn

Like others already said, one appropriate sized feeder per meal, time frame is weekly for babies, every two weeks for yearlings etc.

I remember reading somewhere about multiple prey items of equal mass having a higher bone to meat ratio (something about the skull??). If that's correct, than two smaller prey items of equal mass would have less nutritional value.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

This is correct,its all about bone density between the two.
Two lesser mature prey may equal overall protein mass but they cant equal the bone density of an older animal.

Feeding is stressful to boa and keeping the feeding response amped up during multiple prey feedings isn't allowing the stress level subside like it normally can with a one prey feed.

If this isn't correct,someone please correct my understanding of
feeding response stress related to Boa's.

>>Like others already said, one appropriate sized feeder per meal, time frame is weekly for babies, every two weeks for yearlings etc.
>>
>>I remember reading somewhere about multiple prey items of equal mass having a higher bone to meat ratio (something about the skull??). If that's correct, than two smaller prey items of equal mass would have less nutritional value.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats
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TnK

I don't have the source any more, but I did read an article on a study of Burmese Pythons, and they recorded a lot of physiological and biological changes during feeding. Increased heart rate, increased heart size, chemicals in the system skyrocketing, just to recall a couple off the top of my head. And some of the effects lasted a while afterwards.

Ya mean that kind of stress?
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Richard Carew
Sunset BCI
You laugh at me cuz I'm different! I laugh at you cuz you're all the same.
Stop Inhumane and Illegal Practices

Yes. I remember reading the article about the huge increase in metabolism for digestion. Also mentioned, I believe it was the same article, was the way in which digestion occurred. The head is almost immediately dissolved and the contents of the prey item are digested from the inside of the prey item head to tail. Second and third prey items may just sit in line waiting on the first one to be digested before they are taken in turn. I don't know.
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

that I really trust the same question once. He explained that the stomach of a snake is better adapted to stretch "girth wise" than length wise.
He told me that if a feeding was too long, often the muscles that close the stomach could be held open. This would allow some of the stomach acids to enter the throat and damage it. Obviously, you can easily feed something that is too wide or too long, but the snake's stomach is better able to stretch to something thick. Does that make sense?