Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This happened to me with my corn snake, but really it applies to hot keepers, whether in the field or just transporting your snakes from one location to another.

I dropped one of my Okeetee corns into a pillow case for a day until I could get it's cage cleaned out. I really didnt have the time. It's a deep pillowcase, and so I spun the top a few times and tied a knot to close the bag. Now, I tied the knot tight enough so that it wouldnt just flop open, but I could probably still get a finger or two inside the knot easily.

I got home from work last night, made some dinner, sat down to eat it and watch Dirty Jobs. While I was watching TV, I noticed some movement on top of the fireplace mantle. It was the aforementioned Okeetee cornsnake. I couldnt believe it.
I went back upstairs, checked the bag for a hole in the corner, or seam or whatever, and found nothing. So....either the snake teleported out of the bag, or actually followed the tunnel created by the knot and got out of the bag.

Dont let this happen to you with a hot. Please! If Im out collecting, hots go into a pillowcae, get a tight knot, and then go into a 5 gallon bucket with a lid on it and a peep hole.

Check yoself befo you wreck yoself !
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Tom

"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

I always use buckets with screw on lids for holding and transport.
Bagging venomous snakes can be risky without a bagger. They can also bite through a bag but not a bucket!
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

Tim is right on. I will actually bag my hots, and, then place them in a screw in bucket, or, some other sturdy/lockable container as an added measure - this way, if I'm transporting, even in a worse case scenario, if the container breaks, I should still have the animal contained. If I'm just doing routine maintenance, though, like Tim said, I just drop them in a screw on bucket or something similar - much safer than bags.

It's also a good idea to periodically inspect all bags being used for hots - a few loose seems and you have a small disaster - reinforced bags are the way to go if you do bag.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center

>>I always use buckets with screw on lids for holding and transport.
>>Bagging venomous snakes can be risky without a bagger. They can also bite through a bag but not a bucket!
>>-----
>>Tim Cole
>>www.Designeratrox.com/
>>www.AustinReptileService.net
>>www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
>>Conservation through Education
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

I don't trust knots. I twist the bag and give a few tight wraps with electrical tape. It's also easier to get off than a tight knot.
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What goes up must come down...unless it exceeds escape velocity.

If bagging really must be used, I was going to suggest what LarryF said.

It's a good idea to sew "dog ears" on the corners of the bags. I don't know how else to describe it. Sew a diagonal line across the corners. This reinforces the weaker parts of the pillow case as well as giving you something to safely grip when dumping the snake out.

If you're too lazy to sew (raises hand), you can just pinch a few inches off of a corner and wrap electrical tape around it.

(Obviously, if the bag has a big ole hole in the corner, it's probably best just to toss it out asap.)

My best friend moved to Houston around 8 months ago to go work at NASA. He left his corn in my care during this time. After running into hassles with FedEx trying to ship the snake up to him, I figured I'd just drive him up to Houston when I went to visit my friend for New Years...this is a 12 hour drive from New Mexico where I live.

Anyway, Dec. 30th I leave for Houston. I put the snake in a Midwest snake bag (one of the ones they send free with orders) knotted and tied it, and put it in a styrofoam cooler in the front passenger seat. I didn't tape down the cooler because I wanted to be able to easily check on the snake on the trip.

Just after San Antonio (it was already dark), I see a sillouhette of a snake climbing up my dashboard...I reached for him, but he jerked away and fell. I pulled over on the shoulder quite hastily. Fortunately, he'd fallen on the seat and stayed put. I threw him in the cooler, took the next exit, and examined what had happened.

The knot was still tied. I tried pushing my finger through the knot without any luck. I untied it and could locate no holes in the bag. I have no idea how the hell he got out. I rebagged him and made it to Houston without any further incident.

Sorry for the long post, but it just humors me that someone else had a very similar experience around the same time with the same species of snake...maybe corns possess some secret power??

I'm incredibly happy I wasn't transporting anything venomous. Granted, had I been, I would have taken more precautions (such as securing the lid on the cooler), but the thought of having a hot loose in my car WHILE I'm driving at 80 mph on the highway is not appealing.

It is actually law in Florida that you must put a venomous snake in a bag, and then that bag into your legal transport box. I personally think the most dangerous part of handling a venomous snake would be putting it into a bag, and then un tying the knot and getting it out of the bag. I would rather see some sort of clear acrylic box with a lock that could be placed inside the transport box. Maybe a clear tube with screw on end like a pvc pipe type thing. The pillow case is really old technology, don’t ya think?
By the way, I use electrical cable ties. If you use one, then fold the bag over at the tie and use a second to secure the fold there’s no way any snake is squeezing out that bend. You just have to clip them to open and use new ones every time, no big deal. Haven’t used that with venomous, though. Knots are a real pain in the neck to deal with.

Yeah I had something like that happen to me too but it was my Dad's fault. We lived in VA for abotu 4 years and during that time my dad and I bred corns. One day I went to a friend's house and he came to pick me up. He sad "look at what I got." I look in the bag and it's empty "................what's it supposed to be?" he's like "what ya talkin aobut it's a butter corn?". I said "there's nothin in there........."I looked for holes and wadddya know theres on in the corner. that corn was gone for about a month. then one evening my dad goes into the garage and theres that butter corn sitting on the table! How he survived in the car for that long who knows.

I remember reading some stories about bag (or other storage) mishaps with venemous so lets hear some more.

I recall a guy accidentally sitting on a bag with a black mamba in it in South Africa that ended fatally?

A Mr. Hunter wrote of riding in a cab with a forest cobra inside a plastic trash can with a flimsy lid and a motivated and angry cobra. (venom 101 I recall)

I also seem to recall someone looking over to see a rattlesnake they'd bagged and deposited in the back seat while road herping....sitting in the passenger seat (or something approximately like that).

I haven't really had a seroius storage "mishap" (like a venomous snake getting out of storage or a bag), but I have had something happen that might be worth sharing.

I used my home-made bagging net to bag a forest cobra for tranport. He was in the bag with a hook held across near the middle of the bag to hold him back so I could tape it.

He momentarily stopped searching and sat with his head pressed against the top of the bag. When I reached for the end to start taping, he pushed up and lunged over the hook taking most of his side of the bag across with him.

Luckily, I hadn't given him enough slack to reach where my hand was, but it sure was a reminder to be carful about where you put your hands while bagging.
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What goes up must come down...unless it exceeds escape velocity.

That might not be such a good idea on such a public forum. Lets focus on the positive here. Members of the media/law enforcement/etc read this forum regularly and honestly there is no need in giving them something to sensationalize. I've been contacted many times from this forum from different agencies regarding what I've posted or what others have posted on here (e-mail, they'll occasionally find something interesting and look up names, find out I'm a student and call my major professor looking for me etc).

Just trying to keep things positive for the hobby.

Well, I for one think that getting some advice about what not to do and learning from others (and mistakes will happen) to be one of the best functions of this forum.

ie.) Look at the forest cobra example above. What the heck is wrong with that post, I found it very informative?

My guess is that if someone posted up something really stupid like...."oh I was road herping for species x in state y" and it was an illegal practice, protected species etc. then yes you might very well get a call about it.

My advice is to not post here about potentially illegal activity if that is what you are involved in....but this topic is about safely bagging and securing your snakes so I suspect no problems if people stay on topic.

SnakesNStuff,

I don't see ANY problem with people posting stories about honest mistakes they have made. State agencies/animal welfare groups/etc. are likely not under any impression that we are flawless, infallable humans incapable of mistakes. Mistakes happen, sometimes we get off easy (like Larry in the forest cobra incident), sometimes not. As long as someone isn't posting about irresponsible behavior (such as playing with hots while intoxicated, etc.), I see absolutely no harm in posting such things. Hopefully it can prevent someone from making the same mistake.

If someone ever contacted me regarding a post made about a mistake with a hot, I'd tell them as such.

Ouch, that was a rather harsh reply...

Now if all replies were like that of Larry's, there isn't a problem.. but more and more I see more people getting into venomous reptile husbandry WITHOUT having an understanding of BASIC snake husbandry... There are many posts on this forum from people of such caliber and that is the kind of posting I was hoping to cull.

Oh, and since the post was coming from someone saying we shouldn't talk about dealing with the snakes while intoxicated etc, I'll point out that it is rather odd that the post is coming from someone whose screen name is a reference to a psychedelic mushroom genus.

My reply wasn't intended to be harsh, so I apologize if it appeared that way.

Regarding my username, it is highly presumptuous of you to insinuate my statements to be hypocritical...I have NEVER interacted with a venomous reptile while intoxicated...period.

I'm wondering if you would be as judgmental about my username if I was a Native American and my username was "peyote".

I don't think SnakesandStuff was implying that you use intoxicants while working venomous snakes. And no way can you read into his post that he was being judgmental about your user name.

Randal

Randal,

"Oh, and since the post was coming from someone saying we shouldn't talk about dealing with the snakes while intoxicated etc, I'll point out that it is rather odd that the post is coming from someone whose screen name is a reference to a psychedelic mushroom genus."

Why else would my post be "odd" in light of my username?

Regardless, I'm not trying to enter a flame war here. My opinion is that SnakesNStuff was wrong in his opinion that posting about accidents or mishaps regarding venomous on this forum, providing that they were honest mistakes that any herper could make. Certainly if someone said "Dude, I got really drunk and stuck my adamanteus' head in my mouth and it like, really sucked" (ala a fellow in Washington, I believe), I would agree such things are better off not said. In the end, it's just my OPINION.

i might be the guy in your third example. it was a yearling copperhead, one of three that we (erik and i) caught in so. missouri. we were driving home late at night, on a major highway, when the little guy surprised us. he was just sitting there on the armrest between the seats, as if he belonged there. he really looked like he was looking out the windshield. after we pulled over, and double bagged the little guy, eric said the funniest thing. "i have to take a piss, bad". the bag he was in had a dime sized hole in it we later found out. great snakes, copperheads.

yeah I've been gettin a better appreciation for them latley. we have one at work that's really cool.

I don't tie bags anymore. I twist em around a couple times and put one of those nylon "zip ties" around it TIGHT. When you want to open the bag. you don't have to mess around with trying to loosen an over-tight knot for several minutes, just snip with a pair of side-cutters,(wire cutters, whatever you want to call them,)and its open.MartyM

Hey, that's what I do, too! I always fold it over and use a second one though, and as I wrote in my post, there's no way a snake is making that bend!

Maybe I should start a new thread with this, but what the heck, it will probably be seen here too...

I posted this on the Cage and Habitat forum, because there’s a bunch of people there that are always building things and sharing ideas for projects. I figured I’d also post here because of the “snake got out of the bag” posts. Here’s an idea for a hot transport box that has an acrylic “shield” built in so if the snake did get out of the bag, you would have the acrylic window in place instead of the other way of finding out…

I’m not sure if this counts for this forum, but thought I’d share this here.
I found this plastic box made by Plano and thought it would be a great transport box for small venomous (or not) snakes.

Here’s a picture of what it is suppose to be used for

I cut the inside shelf so I could install the acrylic window with a simple handle

Close up of the handle- note nuts glued to stay put...

It has a place to hold the packing slip, or some documentation as to the contents of the box,

and a place for a lock

I drilled a bunch of air holes all around the shelf inside, and in the lid.
Now if the snake escaped the bag inside, no surprises!

I bought a hot transport box made of plywood and screen for $40.00, but this only cost about $25.00 including
the acrylic and handle. I really think this is a better box.

I'll check with the state when I get my inspection and ask what they think of this box and let you know.
Ciao!

That looks great,
I think I will make one of those this weekend!
Ryan

np

I had my facility inspection yesterday and discussed this box with FWC officers.
It did not pass as an acceptable transport box.
The hinge on the box is plastic, without a metal pivot rod, and therefore not considered sturdy enough in their opinion. Also, if you lock the box and then pull up on one of the corners of the box, you can distort it, bend it, enough to get a gap in the lid.
They were very thorough and professional. They liked the idea of it, but, oh well- back to the drawing board! This is Florida, by the way, and while it may be different where you live, it is always better to err on the side of safety, so I would not build or use a box like this knowing it is not acceptable here. Or figure ways of improving these design flaws, a stiffer lid, etc.