Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well Everyone, 2008 is upon us and it is time to think about the schedule for spring and summer. I have marked my calendar and sent my request to work for the first week in June. This is Dark of the moon week and falls at a pretty good time. I would prefer it if it were a week later but hey, we go with the flow.

If we are lucky Lance and I might be on a friends educational permit, if not then we will be observing animals only.

Anyone else planning on being out this summer?

Best Wishes,

SXO792

Well, for HCU members the first week of June is already marked-the annual meeting is tentatively set to occur that week at the Gries Ranch near Pandale. Plenty of great field hunting for altena and other species, with no worries about the road collecting ban! So any HCU members who haven't checked out the website lately should do so in order to get details...
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Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

Sounds like I will have the road to myself in june.sweettttttt.

L8r

Nice to hear someone else is going to have the "stones" to road "cruise". Good post,Shannon. BA

I also have that whole week blocked off...My birthday is that week, so I'll be out there somewhere looking for my present from West Texas

Max
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Snakes to the Max

I will be out there with camera only. I am not going to quit over a decade of tradition just because I can't collect. Let them stay up all night with night vision, and I hope the wardens love their bosses for it in the morning. I hope TPWD is looking forward to alot of phone calls, emails and letters next legislative session. The politicians too. Don't they have something more worthwhile to spend taxpayer money on? They must really be underworked to have so much time to spend on such a useless law.

In their mind, a law is a law. The complaint that you make is valid, however they will say... Don't all criminals say the same thing... Pot isn't that bad as Cocaine. Why not bother the pot smokers and just enforce the cocaine users. Then the cocaine users say the same thing. Our stuff is natural and it isn't as bad as Meth. Why don't you just enforce the law on the Meth users and dealers. In their mind, we are the criminals since the law is on the books. Regardless if it makes sense or not. Remember they have to enforce the law from their point of view. We support our opinions due to our point of view. They differ but the law is on the books. No matter how you try to rationalize the issue, it is still against the law. Remember I agree with you. But they have the badges and the power... and they have been waiting for this for a VERY LONG TIME...!

2008 another great year....

SXO792

Oh I know you agree with me, that's why I said I will only be photographing. However the wardens will still have to patrol. I don't think the field officers will like having to stay up all night to enforce a senseless law that was put on the books by a few higher-ups who were acting senselessly. I was being sarcastic when I said I hope the wardens will love their bosses. I am sure that when they examine the issue, the wardens will see that there is no logical way road collecting was doing harm, except perhaps to a very few sensitive species like box turtles.

not quite sure that the division between those willing to road cruise and those who have chosen to seek out land areas should be distinguished by whether or not their gonads (or ovaries) are intact. some will just road cruise, some will only hunt land, and others will do both. but we are all alterna lovers so we may not want to create an "us" vs. "them" syndrome. (brhaco refuses to allow me a visual, but my guess is that all of his parts are still there).

Brad meant any disparagement. I think most of us will be out there road cruising in one form or another. I mostly hunt to photograph anyway, which is purportedly not banned under this law. So I myself plan to be running the roads as usual. I think most have decided to forgo actual collecting for the time being, with confidence that we can get this illogical and ill-conceived rule repealed or amended in the next legislative session.

That is certainly, IMO, priority number one for HCU.

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Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

im clear, my apologies.

Hi, I'm a newbie to the alterna, at first i thought what's the fuss all about. Last year I was in Tex-Hus with John O. OK, I got hooked just from the area. I hope to make it again this year.

But my reason for the post. It would be nice if photographers got into the herping season. An extra 20-40 cars running up and down the highways to take pics would be nice. I'm a retired cop from in side Ohio. I can speak personally how stupid some laws are. Ohio has some of the best of the worst. Photographers should all have long slender canes, not because they might look like snake stick from a distance, just to help with the long walks of course.

I doubt my Ohio badge will get me out of a jam if caught road herping. But I'm not afraid of the Texas law. I'm more afraid of coming home to the wife and explaining the unexplained costs!

Be safe, be wise and good luck!
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

at least a little professional courtesy. did I tell you about the time GTS Tex Mex got pulled over in Monterey? That cop was so impressed that he had pulled over a NY State Trooper that by the end of our episode we were taking photographs and collecting addresses to send them to. hahahaha Nevermind the illegal left turn!

Most of the guys in the field are pretty nice. Just don't blatantly break the law in front of them.

Remember that we have a civil right to use those roads for transportation, picking flowers, photography, riding bikes, jogging, roadside vending, bird watching, taking a leak, collecting bugs, and various other activities.

You can walk or ride and look all you want. They want to single us out, we refuse to be singled out.
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

LOL yea I have a few good stories in both directions. Right now I'm in my rebellian state, with a zz top beard. I always shave nice, and get my crew cut, and turn off my Led Zeppelin to a country station if I'm doing something like picking flowers.

OH yea, lower the volume too. At night, it is always nice to tuen off the car/truck, place your keys on the dash, turn on all interior lights and hands on the top of the steering wheel.

It just let's them know from the start you are trying to make his job safe. It goes a long way.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

Remember that we have a civil right to use those roads for transportation, picking flowers, photography, riding bikes, jogging, roadside vending, bird watching, taking a leak, collecting bugs, and various other activities.

I am thinking about bringing an archery target on the shoulder... BTW, as far as we know that is legal
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

I think it is good that folks are still going to get out this season. Whether it cruising or walking. It does bring up a good thought. Does anyone own or going to carry Night Vision goggles? That way you can see who is seeing...

Just a thought...

Best Wishes,

SXO792

I am not going to spend that much time worried about it. I plan to be legal and have fun.... If they (Wardens) want to stay up all night and baby sit me then they can just walk on over and we can keep each other company, make the best of it, I am pretty sure they have a flashlight.... Maybe we can show them how to find herps and infect them with the same interest we have?

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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

Does anyone own or going to carry Night Vision goggles? That way you can see who is seeing...

If you have a camera/camcorder with NightShot, then you have NVG capability--works on the same principle (basically).

On a related note, and I've probably asked this here before, has anyone used NVGs or NightShot to help locate snakes? Some herps I've observed (iguanas) showed up well against their background (palm leaves), while others (house geckos) showed only slight contrast (against brick walls).

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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

I live in the country in Ohio. Been wanting good NVG for a long time, but they are pricey and to many bills with a daughter in college. I wanted them for watching animals in my woods. Then I was watching some tv show and they were talking about herp. Talked about cold blooded, get body temp from environment, but they do create a little on their own!!! I thought how cool to sit on my porch and see a black rat snake cruise around my field. Then of course I thouhgt would they be a useful device for herping? Almost creating if you have a long range lens on it too.

Well, I've had the same thought for a few years. IN a way I hope it does not work. Commerical collectors would go nuts.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

>>Does anyone own or going to carry Night Vision goggles? That way you can see who is seeing...
>>
>>If you have a camera/camcorder with NightShot, then you have NVG capability--works on the same principle (basically).
>>
>>On a related note, and I've probably asked this here before, has anyone used NVGs or NightShot to help locate snakes? Some herps I've observed (iguanas) showed up well against their background (palm leaves), while others (house geckos) showed only slight contrast (against brick walls).
>>
I use night vision goggles as part of my job all the time. I use some of the most expesive ones made. I can tell you that unless you were standing in front of a very light colored rock cut staring at it looking for shapes, NVG's wouldn't work that good. Even the most exspensive bino nvg's give very bad depth of field and I've busted my *$% more times than I care to count walking with them. Many of my coworkers have hit cows, deer, fence posts and even a parked road grader trying to drive with them. I've thought about the idea too but decided pretty quickly that it wouldn't work (with current technology anyway).
JP
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Snakes of Hudspeth County, Texas

>>I use night vision goggles as part of my job all the time. I use some of the most expesive ones made.

I do too.

I can tell you that unless you were standing in front of a very light colored rock cut staring at it looking for shapes, NVG's wouldn't work that good.

That's the question I had. Basically the concept of NVGs is to take light at the IR/Near-IR end of the visible spectrum and amplify it. While this implies that you're looking at a "heat-sensitive" view of the environment, the NVGs are also showing you the difference in albedo (basically the reflectivity of an object) between objects of interest, which is why you get high contrast between an asphalt road and a plowed field.

Since snakes don't generate appreciable heat, there won't be too much difference in the heat signature of the snake and a rock face behind it, but if snakes had a measurable difference in albedo of their skin vs. albedo of their habitat, you would be able to spot them more easily. I haven't tried using NVGs to find snakes so I can't say for sure, and I don't have any captives to use to experiment.

Even the most exspensive bino nvg's give very bad depth of field

That's true. You don't look "through" NVGs as you do with optical binoculars; you look "at" NVGs since you're basically looking at two TV screens (light enters and excites the phosphor plate which produces the end-result, two-dimensional image).

trying to drive with them.

My friend got pulled over driving with NVGs on (no headlights).

I've thought about the idea too but decided pretty quickly that it wouldn't work (with current technology anyway).

They're still fun for chasing the wife around a darkened house!

Anyway, rather than just go on hunches, it would be fun to set up a controlled-condition test to see if THEORETICALLY you could use NVGs as an aid to finding snakes. I think PRACTICALLY speaking, they wouldn't help out enough to make it worth the effort/cost because you'd be scanning a range of surfaces, all with varying albedo.
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

Well I have my own small piece of land that I can hunt, plus I think the Gries Ranch has alot of potential. In fact I would have paid to hunt the Gries Ranch even if there was no law against road collecting. If I get rained out, or bored or the snakes aren't moving at those places, you can be sure I will be on the road(photographing) at the same places I have been for the last 11 years.

what about the Sierra Vieja lease? that's the one I'm looking forward to exploring.
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

It looks awesome. Do you know how accessable the "8 miles of Rio Grande frontage" is? Is there a road parrallel to the river? It would be neat to hunt your own private river rd.

Best bet this time of year would be to call them and also look at google earth.

Ways to pass the time in the off season... Like training camp
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

>>It looks awesome. Do you know how accessible the "8 miles of Rio Grande frontage" is? Is there a road parallel to the river? It would be neat to hunt your own private river rd.

Yes I think so, but I do not think that road is safe or productive for alterna. There are still gun battles between the smugglers and LE in that area. Fun stuff. But there are Canyons back there that have never been herped, and there are no breeding pairs of Sierra Vieja alterna in captivity. We need to fix that. There's something else back there only a few people know is there and even less have seen.
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

That undefined snake that looks like a cross between an Alterna and a Milksnake?

Is that what you are talking about?

I thought that was an Urban Legend or something...

Later,

SXO792

..But don't worry-just make sure you're not the slowest person in your party....
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Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

>>..But don't worry-just make sure you're not the slowest person in your party....
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>>Brad Chambers
>>
>>The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

That's right, I don't have to outrun the Jaguar, I only have to outrun you
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

They have Jaguar's in the Sierra Vieja's? I never heard that one.

Learn something new every day I guess.

SXO792

but maybe.

That area is probably the least surveyed part of Texas because of being remote and dangerous. I wasn't talking about a Jaguar or Kingsnake, but who knows what is back there?
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

Jags have been showing up as wanderers from Mexico rather regularly in recent years. There have even been a couple photographed in Arizona. No confirmed sightings recently in Texas (that I'm aware of), but it has happened in the past!
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Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

LOL...

Shannon

Yeah, they've been seen in the Peloncillo and Baboquivari Mountains in New Mexico and Arizona...Green Ratsnake habitat. Blows me away that we actually have native big cats in the U.S.

DR
Suboc.com

Are you thinking Green Rats? Or possibly Rough Greensnakes?

>>Are you thinking Green Rats? Or possibly Rough Greensnakes?

I don't want to post what is there on open internet. I'll tell any HCU member that shows up out there in the field with me so they can help me look

You think Green Rats could be there? Pretty interesting. They are definitely not far west of there and have about the largest range of any rat snake. That would be a trip. If you are gonna go there, how about Gilas?
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

Actually I don't know, I just kinda threw that out there to see what you would say. I need to look up some range maps before I take a serious guess.

Oxybelis.
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Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

>>Oxybelis.
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>>Brad Chambers
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>>The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

There's another killer ranch near Sanderson coming online. I'll let JP close the deal and announce it on HCU
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

no post
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Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

There's something else back there only a few people know is there and even less have seen.

Right?

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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

Now thats funny! LOL. BA