Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am mainly concerned about rack system for my rapidly growing pit collection and this is a plan ahead be ready when it needs to be in use type thing. I am looking at building a 10-12 tub, 5-6 level rack system and I am focusing right now on heating options. I would like to hear reccomendations on thermostats, heat tapes etc... any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

On a Side note, I bought my first snake to overcome the fear of them..man o man has it been overcome in a big way 16 snakes and growing. This is a wonderful and exciting hobby that I hope I can contibute to and participate in for many, many years to come.

Charles

Charles, you appear to be heading in the right direction. One of the mistakes I made years ago was poor planning when adding herps. My interest began when I was a child in the 60's. During my teen years I maintained a small group of various herps which eventually led into over 400 herps during my 20's - mid 30's. Mind you I purchased all my rodents and kept many herps in assorted forms of containment from glass aquaria to many brands, types of plastic ware available. Was much work that took alot of the enjoyment out of keeping as it was a crazy schedule I implemented in mantaining these herps as I deemed adequate. To this day I still look for better ways as to provide as best an environment as possible for my captives.

The products we now have access to is quite a change to what was available back then. You are much wiser then I was when first starting out as I added supplies for the most part after my acquisitions.

There is actually a wealth of knowledge in the current and old forums in regards to rack building (some with actual plans) as well as rodent feeding and breeding info. Check the forum on caging as well as the feeder section. I was shocked on the actual amount contributed myself when I started taking to rodent production as well. Much out there and I have been testing various setups listed seeing which would be more appropriate with my needs.

Basically these days I use various manufactured rack systems for ease of maintenance with most using flexwatt heat tape. I do also have some that use heating cables as well. I have gone thru many styles of thermostats and find most reliable but still use a back up system in case of a therm sticking open and possibly
overheating the racks. Current setups consist of Ranco therms backed up by Alife therms as a shutoff if heating exceeds specific temps I set.

I no longer mantain such a large group of herps as I did years ago cutting back to approximately 25% of what I kept then but I do find for me less is better as I have more time to observe the individual herps mantained here instead of focusing more on a mantainence schdule.

Rich Hebron

Thanks you for the warm welcome and for sharinf your insights and experiences Rich. I have finally come to realization that I am hooked on snakes, the same realization that my wife came to the second she saw me handle our first snake (a northern pine, generic).
I am very much wanting to make sure that as the snakes gain size and the collection grows that we are not scrambling to try and keep up, and therefor possibly jepordizing the quality of care we give our animals and that which they deserve.
I have been to a couple of websites that sell rack systems and was blown away by the prices... which led me to doing this research and I have come across several ways in which to make racks for everything from hatchlings to large pits etc... many of them holding numerous tubs and all for less than 100.00us...
I am also looking into double redundancy for thermostats as I have heard of horror stories of even the most sophisticated systems failing. So heating is my primary concern as the actuall building of the racks and the supllies involved are both easy and relitivley in-expensive.
So in closing I am learning the ins and outs of this great hobby and of those wonderful creatures I keep and making friends as well which to me makes a person far wealthier than money. I appreciate what you have brought to these forums and hope to continue to learn here and from the many great people on these forums.

Charles
P.S: I was just informed by my wife that I had recieved an email from you at the email account used when I created my account here several months ago... alas that account and me have seperated, I would relish the chance to open correspondence with you and share information.Please feel free to eamil at the link below and again thanks for taking the time to share!
My Email

Charles,

as you know we had a fiasco several months ago with our cooling system and a mistake in this area can have dire repercussions. So be careful. I have stayed away from heat tape as I have too many friends that have had problems with malfunction. Currently I use a heating/cooling system for the entire room and then suplement with heating pads that were designed for swine farmers. They are a little more costly than the ones for people with heavier heating elements and thermostats, but stand up really well and I have never had one malfuntion in 10 years of use.. They are also usually for sale at your local feed store.

As far as a rack system, buy your boxes ( a double set if possible ) and then building the rack to fit. I suggest lidless as it will save you a lot of time and effort when cleaning. Our routine is pretty simple, we have double boxes that are clean and have aspen in them, we pull out the dirty box lift the snake out and into the clean box, put in a new water, replace the hide box and move to the next one. The dirty boxes are then washed out and disinfected with a light solution of rocal for the next cleaning cycle.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

Rocal? this a disenfecting product? We are lookin at both heat-tape a room wide system at this point, leaning towards the heat-tape but we are hoping people will give out some advice/stories that help us with our desicion.
Thanks again for the info,

Charles
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I loathe people who keep dogs. They are cowards who haven't got the guts to bite people themselves.
August Strindberg (1849 - 1912), A Madman's Diary, 1895

Roccal-D is a 3rd generation quaternary ammonia based veterinary disinfectant, with a deodorizer. It is normally diluted at a 128:1 ratio with water. Since ammonia is the ONLY thing proven to kill Cryptosporidium, it is an excellent choice for use with reptile cages. I use it alternately with a 10:1 Chlorine bleach solution. In that way, I know I'll kill all parasite larvae and eggs as well as virus and bacterium. Don't forget to disinfect shelf and rack surfaces while you are at it as well as linoleum snake-room floors.

In using either preparation, it is essential to allow "soak" time, at least 10 minutes, then rinse yur cages and cage furnishings thoroughly and allow to air-dry preferably in the sun. Chlorine bleach is an irritant to reptiles and Roccal-D can be toxic.

John has an excellent suggestion to use double caging, so you can rotate between cleanings. I number my cages and water bowls and hide boxes so that I can use the same ones for each snake as a further precaution against cross-contamination. It is probably unnecessary since the cages and furnishings are thoroughly disinfected, but it makes me feel better. I also maintain several cages (and furnishings) that are "quarantine only". Those are kept in a separate room (my quarantine room) and are never used in the general collection. If I have a snake that turns out sick in quarantine, that cage is destroyed and replaced. New snakes are quarantined for a period of 180 days.

Roccal-D is available by the gallon from veterinary supply houses, or you veterinarian can order it for you. The last gallon I bought was in the neighborhood of $40.00 as I remember, but because of the dilution (one ounce to a gallon of water) it will last a LONG time. I mix a gallon at a time and just refill plastic spray bottles with it.

Howdy, good to see you in this forum as well. After our last correspondence exchange a while back my quarantine area as become a room. No less than 6 months for any new herp regardless of the source. Increased it from 2 months after all the horror stories that came from your post to me on some viruses.

I am using Virosan myself, are these possibly the same product ? Any comments to what may be more effective if not?

Thanks, Rich Hebron

Rich,

I am not sure about the product that you mentioned, but I can tell you that the rocal as oldherper said is the only one that is known to effectively kill cryto. according to our vet. which is a problem that scares me to death. I have had enoungh problems in the recent past with the thermostat fiasco and the extra cost of rocal helps make me breathe easier.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

A little over a decade ago I had some herps (Argentine rainbow boas)I purchased from a retailer diagnosed with cypto. It is as bad as everyone stated. Unfortunately not soon after I did experience yet another group of herps sent to me diagnosed with crypto and it was a group of Cape gophers. Outcome was just as bad.

I can relate but not on such a large scale I am hearing in regards to your disaster. Glad to see you did not throw in the towel.

Thanks, Rich

Side note as I realized Virosan does not contain any ammonia so they are different. Now I'm curious to its effectiveness myself and need to read more on it.

Hi Rich,

Virosan is a Chlorhexadine preparation similar to Nolvasan. It is not as broad spectrum as a Quaternary Ammonia preparation, but is effective against many common reptile pathogenic bacteria, including Pseudomonas. Straight Chlorhexadine is not effective against Pseudomonas, but Virosan has an alcohol additive that is. It is not particularly effective against many viruses or Mycobacteria. As a side note, Roccal-D is not effective against spores, mycobacteria or fungi, Pseudomonas, or hydrophylic viruses or some parasite oocysts. That is why I also use a Chlorine Bleach solution in addition to the Roccal-D. Chlorine Bleach will kill ALMOST anything that lives. Interestingly, Cryptosporidium survives Chlorine Bleach. The only thing I know of proven to kill Crypto is ammonia. Virosan and Nolvasan are not as toxic or irritating to the animals as Roccal-D and Chlorine bleach, so in that respect are safer to use. Roccal-D, as stated earlier, can be very toxic to animals so great care must be used to make certain all residue is rinsed away.