Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, in this ever learnig world of keeping reptiles, I think I found out why my reptiles got RI. I feel so stupid, because it is so simple. Just like when I bought my first snake they told me to use red lights, and I asked why, not reg lights for heat. Duh, they don't have eye lids. So back to my point. In speaking with some keepers they advised me that the issue is bacteria. Everytime they poop or pee, I cleaned the cage right away. I always used bleach and then wiped it clean with water, until the smell was gone. However, I neglected to wash the walls and the top of the cage. Most likley where the mold was. I am wondering if this was the cause of my problems. My burm was in an animal plastic cage, where there is only a little vent in the back of 4 slits. My retic has RI to in a vision cage. Temps have always been OK, and was advised that sure temps and humidity can help cause this but most of it is bacteria.

I clean my water bowls each week with antibacterial soap, and once a month put it in a bowl of clorox. I use clorox when I clean the cage when they poop or pee.

Is there anything I am missing. I still am on my quest to stop RI. It happens when the snakes are 3-4 years old and bigger. Never have an issue with babies, so if nothing changes with temps or my water cleaning, it has to be the mold that may grow.

Thoughts.

Thank you

Jeff
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger
1.0 Amel Retic
0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Red Tail
0.1 Blood Python
1.0 Green Ananconda
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa

Other thought was it was the newspaper, I switched to kraft paper.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger
1.0 Amel Retic
0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Red Tail
0.1 Blood Python
1.0 Green Ananconda
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa

Howdy, Rotten!

I think you're on the right track in the way your thinking about causes of RI but let me try to explain it the way I see it with hopes that it'll help you.

Bottomline:
RI is caused by caging conditions. Different cages can have different problems that cause RI. For example: 1 - A tank w/screen lid doesn't hold heat or humidity well and snakes kept in these types of cages usually get RI from low temps and/or low humidity. 2 - Commercial and homemade enclosures can have too restricted of an air flow, allowing mold growth. Inhaling mold spores can cause RI. Most young snakes seem to be more tolerant, resistant to mold.

I'd venture to say that about 75% of today's keepers fall into example #1, tank/screen lid cage and that's why I believe low temps/humidity is the leading cause of RI.

However, the situation you described doesn't fall into that category, so it's likely that mold could be the culprit. Regardless of the type of cage it's a good idea to clean every inch of the cage when cleaning it, not just the visible mess. A 5 - 10% bleach to water solution will kill mold but want stop it from coming back. As far as I know antibacterial soap won't phase it. (I know you said you use it on their waterbowls, not cage, but just making sure everyome reading knows.) I use the same bleach solution that I clean cages with to clean waterbowls, too. I rinse them thoroughly afterwards, and if I have time I let 'em dry out but I don't worry too much about drying 'em out.

If you suspect mold you should try to increase the cage's ventilation as stagnant humid air is resident evil.

As far as newspaper & kraft paper goes, kraft paper might be a little more mold resistant since it's not as absorbant as newspaper. There's still a chance for mold to grow under it, though.

Just for this information to be somewhat complete, another cause of RI is it can be passed from an infected snake to another snake. I've seen it said that they have to come in contact with the infected snake's feces for it to happen but I'm not too sure about that. Maybe, maybe not.

Take care, Jeff!
Mike
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Thanks,

Can you clearify. The antibacterial soap is OK or not OK for cleaning the bowls once a week. Otherwise I have a new plan. One that Brian Smith had used. Take out the old bowls and put them in the bleach bowl and then put the clean one in the cage.

I think air flow is the problem. Interesting on one snake giving it to another, because my burm that passed was underneath the snake that is sick now.

I think I am going to bleach each cage everytime, top to bottom.

Thanks again,

Jeff

By the way I read your message in the monitor forum about cage building. If you lived out here I would be in, just so I could do it myself once.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger
1.0 Amel Retic
0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Red Tail
0.1 Blood Python
1.0 Green Ananconda
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa

Hi Jeff!
Yeah, it's OK to use anitbacterial soap to clean waterbowls.

The two bowl - swap out (bleached) method is a good idea that I've heard some people mention before. Personally I think it's unnecessary but it is a good safety precaution. I use a bleach mix to clean mine and then rinse 'em thoroughly, usually wiping the inside with my hand or brush as I rinse, and then put 'em right back in the cage. Been doing it for many years and never had a problem.

Someone once told me that was the reason my snakes are all cock-eyed and their tongues hang out the side of their mouths like a dog but I don't think so, I think that's caused from feedin' em dog biscuits as snacks, treats. Ha! Ha!

Ha! So you liked that "Free enclosure building course" thread in the monitor forum, 'eh? Ha! Ha! I was surprised at the positive comments like yours. Heck, if I lived near a big city I'd contact the local herp society and run an ad and give it a go. I know that if Frank or Ben Aller or someone else like that were to hold a course like that close to me I'd be there.

Take care!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American