Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,

I've written about my growing BT here a few times. Now I have a serious question. He weighs 18 pounds, and has never displayed any evidence that anything is wrong. He sheds continuously . He loves to bask in his very hot basking zone. I do what you-all recommend, by placing newspaper under his heat emitters, and adjusting the wattage until the paper reads 140 - 150F with a non-contact thermometer.

I took him in for his first well-check. The vet told me to tub him so his shed can come off, perhaps drink, and benefit from the high-humidity tubbings. But his shed comes of just fine, and he drinks deeply at his water dish. I've heard it both ways about bathing him. Who is right? He's doing fine with no bathing. But I don't want to leave out something he needs, and I don't want to start something that could harm him.

The vet also told me that it would be good for him if I hid his prey around in hiding spots in the room, so he has to hunt. She mentioned a pet-food ball that I could put a rat in, that Jub would have to roll around, trying different holes to pull the rat out. That has the possibility of giving him the most recreation of all.

The lab found a large amount of gram-negative rods, including pseudomonas, so he's on meds every other day, and Probiotics on his off days, both of which I shove down his F/T rat's throats. He acts like he doesn't even notice the cherry-flavored antibiotic on the rat's lips, nor the probiotic gel. Soon I'll get to see his real personality, when he has no tummy-ache.

So I learned a lesson: even if I believe an animal isn't ready for the stress of being packaged in a dog crate and driven to a vet, or if he seems healthy and doesn't seem to need a checkup, I should at least bring in a fecal sample once in a while, and ASAP if I just received him.

Roger

Is that you are under a totally false impression of what you know and of what others tell you. This makes it very hard to help you. You like others want what experienced keepers tell you to make sense TO YOU. That is the problem. Its not going to make sense to you, because you are LACKING EXPERIENCE.

We are also not going to write you a book, Its your task to learn whats needed, not our task to teach you. We(I) have no stake in what you do or know.

Read the above a bunch of times. Its nothing against you. Its simple fact. So, now I will say, WE HAVE ALL TOLD you to not let your monitor loose in a room. There are many reasons for that. We have all said, rooms are not designed for monitors. The reality is, if you kept your room humid enough for raising healthy monitors, it WOULD DESTROY YOUR HOUSE. As an example, a friend of mine had a room in his very nice house humid enough for monitors. This room was a bottom story. I stayed in the room above that room. I noticed something odd about the upper room. The floor had bowed way up. FROM THE HUMIDITY BELOW. If you have a normal stick built house, the humidity will move into the walls and cause lots o DEADLY mold.

Sir, this is WHY we make cages. TO HOLD THE CONDITIONS MONITORS NEED. This is why we "EXPERTS" recomend waterproof cages, cattle troughs, Plastic tanks, and aquaria to hold monitors. Normal wooden cages simply fall apart.

What you vet is telling you is VERY naive. He is telling you a stop gap cure. While it may help in shedding, it does nothing for the gout your monitor will get from being dehydrated for long periods of time. Your monitor if left to dehydration, will die of liver/kidney failure. Poor sheds is not the problem. Its merely a symtom.

We have all told you this a million times, but you refuse to listen. So my advice is, why not just club your monitor to death. You do not appear to be smart enough to understand what anyone is telling you. You simply filter out what you do not want to hear. Which is fine, particularly because your protecting yourself, and its not you that IS being harmed. Your monitor is what will suffer from your arrogance. In this case, arrogance means, excessive self-opinion. You think your opinion is better then those with experience. Good LUCK

give your lizard a wide range of temps and places to choose from that are dry and humid. give it enough substrate to create a burrow, burrows tend to be very humid. dirt works wonders and holds burrows well. if you do this, you will never need to soak your monitor and it'll save it the stress.

if you have ever soaked a monitor, you will notice that most will puff up and try getting out of the water, sometimes in a panic. that's because they think they're going to die, literally. the areas of the world that monitors live in are subject to flash flooding, and it's in the monitor's instinct that if they unwillingly are put into water where they're forced to swim, it's not a good situation.

just my 2 cents...

I always thought monitors are at home in water. My Savannnah monitor loves it in water. I don't think it's the water that scares the monitor; it's the white surface which makes it seems like there is no bottom or sides to them which panicks them. They think they have nothing to hold on to. Iguanas also shows this behavior in the bathtub, and green iguanas are supposedly at home in water. If you ever been to South America riding on a boat, if you happened to pass by the iguanas basking on the branch you will see them jump into the water as soon as they hear you coming. This is how they evade predators by dashing into the water and staying submerge, but funny how they freak out in the bathtub. Just my two cents.

yes, many, if not, most species of monitors are quite comfortable in water. but it's one thing to force them into the water and another for them to get in the water of their own accord.

majority of the monitors i've attempted soaking, even water monitors, acted like they didn't like it. and it wasn't just in the bath tub...i've tried other things, such as rubbermaids...and the reaction is still the same. whether it's a little bit of water or enough for them to swim.

besides, the main point of my post is that if you provide the right temps and humidity, your monitor will have no reason to soak. a humid burrow keeps the moisture inside the monitor's body and, as frank pointed out to me about my rudi, monitors really don't tend to soak of their own accord unless they're dehydrated and need the moisture.

just my two cents

oh..and about the iguanas. yes, they dive into the water to avoid predators.

1) if you have a mellow iguana, it has no reason to dive in any water because it's not avoiding a predator and probably doesn't want to forcefully be put into water.

2) if your iguana is very afraid of you and views you as a predator, it's pointless for the lizard's defense for you to put it into clear water where you can clearly see it. it knows you can see it, it doesn't want you to be able to see it, so it tries getting away.

just a couple of things i thought would help with the whole iguana point

I know at Pro Exotics they soak their monitor in the water, too.

There is always a problem with reading, and that is context. Reading information is great if applied in context. In this case, Why pro exotics soaked animals is a totally different context that what your doing.

They kept their cages DRY, so that the females would HAVE TO(be forced to) lay eggs in a nest box. That made it easy for their employees to find the eggs. After all, THEY ARE A BUSINESS. In their case, it was a business decision. Which is great for them, they are not you.

To make up for having dry cages, they would soak their animals.

In my case, I do not consider myself commerical, even thought I have produced far more monitors of far more species. I do not, because I make my decisions based on the overall health of the monitor. Not for commerical reasons.

Indeed we have a much harder time(more work) finding and digging up eggs. In my case, This is a husbandry decision, not a business decision. I do the digging, not some low paid employee. I simply enjoy the work of moving hundreds of pounds of dirt, and finding a wonderful clutch of eggs, nested very much like I found them IN NATURE.

To make a better comparision, I still have ackies FROM 1991, one pair left. Pro exotics has none of their originals(which came from me)

To dehydrate them, causes more problems then shedding. These problems shorten their lives.

Robyn and I have had private discussions on this subject and if I remember correctly he is/has changed his stance from what he has in his web site. Sir, thats called learning. Which is what sucks about the internet. Some beginer(pro exotics was indeed a beginer) posts something, and it sticks for FAR TO MANY years and is so out of context to the average keeper, it becomes HORRIBLE INFORMATION.

The truth is, as a commerical breeder, Pro-exotics DOES NOT have to, or need to practice the same husbandry as the private keeper. They are in this TO MAKE MONEY, not provide the best conditions for the monitors.

With that said, their conditions and husbandry are about a million times better then most here. And this is what you newbies fail to understand.

They do what they do, backed by experience and the ability to make decisions. You do something because you read it somewhere.

While I disagree with forced dehydration. They(Robyn) has about 10 million times more experience then you do, and knows when and when not to do something. He knows what just how much to allow to control the monitors. I am afraid, you do not know your behind from a hole in the ground. While that may seem harsh, it is what it is. You have ONE friggin monitor.

With one monitor, you simply cannot learn much. Just consider it man hours, like in any business. How many hours a day do you spend with your monitor? 2 maybe, on average. so thats 14 monitor hours a week. Lets compare, I have about 150 monitors and spend about 5 hours a day with them. Thats 5250 monitors hours a week. And I have been doing this for 17 years. Thats 89250 hours of exposure. Of course many of those years I had far more monitors and spent far more time with them. I am sure, Pro-exotics has acquired somewhere between us.

I mention that because, I cannot figure how you think you know so much, particularly from so little. To compare that to real life. It appears you went to pre-school for a week and you think your as smart as a PHD.

With that in mind, you simply cannot comprehend what Robyn or Pro exotics is doing. You have no ability to make proper decisions. In fact, you seem to not have the ability to put what you read in context.

It boils down to the lemming approach. They all jumped of a cliff, so that means its OK for you to do the same. I hope that works for you.

I thought I've read somewhere they encourage people to soak their monitor.

Soaking is for newly imported, dehydreated lizards.
With the right husbandy, it aint needed.
I have had too many savs come through my house over the years and none, I mean none, "liked being soaked.
If you do see one spending alot of time soaking, that is the lizards way of telling you, "Dude, this cage is too damn hot and dry."
It's all about husbandry.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.