Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In the past, I have cooled these corns to 55 degrees.

This year I am not able to cool them to that temp.
I housed them in an 80 degree room. Would the 10 degree drop (to a 70 degree room temp) be adequate to stimulate follicle developement?
If so, would 2 months at that temp be enough, or would a longer brumation period be needed because of the warmer room temp?

Thanks!!!!!!

Brian

I'm sure more people with FAR more experience will answer this, but 70º will not let the snakes metabolism drop, so it will burn far to may calories. And since it is not eating it will lose weight far to fast.

I suspect it is not near cold enough to help with sperm production either.

Just my opinion, it's dangerous for a long term condition.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

Corns and many other colubrids can definitely produce viable sperm without any heat drop, whatsoever. The problem, if any, might be weight loss and burning "unreplenished" calories at unsafe levels, as Don's book states, BUT I know of some well-known breeders who breed subocs, year after year without any temperature drop, other than turning heat tapes off. And subocs typically have colder and MUCH more heterogeneous winters and nighttime lows than do corns.

Suboc.com

idea of the snake being kept at 70 degrees, and its metabolism rate with no food for a long period.

Sperm production was an add on issue. Added to that might be the photo cycle.

I was more afraid of the snake losing to much weight.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

I do not know what the minimum temp drop for cornsnakes is to make a biological difference and hence to legitimately call it brumation. That being said I have known of tons of people who successfully breed corns on a very regular basis without brumating or droping temperatures manually at all. So while it might not qualify as brumating it will be adequate to get baby corns in general. You just might get fewer then you would have gotten if you had actually brumated them. i'm sure Don and others who are experts on corns can give much more specific information.

That being said you do need to monitor body weight because what Herpzilla said about weight loss at the higher temps is true. I would be ready to resume feeding if they start losing much weight.

I know with Brazillian Rainbow Boas, which are normally kept at 82degrees, you can brumate them by droping down only 12 degrees to 70 but that if you do so you must continue to feed them througout the cool period. Although granted the feedings may be less frequent then the rest of the year or slightly smaller food items.

From what I've heard in the past with corns it is not worth attempting to brumate unless you can for sure get the temps down at least to the 60's. Especially since they can breed successfully without brumation and if not brumated the female continues to put on weight during that time which helps with egg production.

Hope was helpfull and I'm sure one of the experts will chime in with better more precise information soon.

Sean
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

There are large portions of the natural range of the corn snake in which the animals may seldom experience temperatures below the low-mid 60s. Ours are brumating in the mid 60s now, but will only be kept cool for about 6 weeks to avoid weight loss.
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Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

I was under the presumption of the typical colubrid brumation period. Or my perception. Thanksgiving to March, give or take.

That's a long time for 70º and no food.

A month would be not much of an issue I guess.

I just wanted to clarify my view.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.HerpZillA.com

Back before I sold off my collection of around 250 adult colubrids, I used to brumate my snakes at a normal temp drop.
To elaborate, I would close off the vents in the room and let the temp drop to whatever it would go to.
There were a few winters were the temp would not go below 70 and one or two were I found slightly above 70 degree temps and still had great egg production, 800 for three years running to be exact.

In my opinion, the photoperiod is more at play than the temp range. If you think about it, you are trying to simulate seasonal changes and not every winter's temps will be the same year to year. One year may have an extreme cold, while the next could be mild, to even somewhat warm, BUT the daylight hour change is ALWAYS the same every year, shorter in the winter & longer in the summer with a gradual increase in the spring and decrease in the fall.

Also, I only brumate my snakes for a period of 10 weeks.

This is just my opinion and it works for me, so I go by the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

Walter

Couldn't agree with you MORE on that one, I lived in south Florida when I bred plenty of corns, and as long as they get a glimpse of what the sun is doing from a nearby window, low temps really didn't seem to be a key part at all. They bred like mad, and had great fertility. I DID however continue feeding them, only at less intervals. The snakes yearly photo-period is like what a daily planner is to humans !..LOL

The colder temps do come in handy for many folks in regards to not having to fuss with them much for two/three months, so it can indeed be a food saver.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"