Reptile & Amphibian Forums

okay so after reading Bob's comment about the cage being WAYY too big, kinda made me wonder why its soo bad to put a baby of a little snak in a big cage?? as long as its kept warm enout with good hides i cant see how it could be bad.
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-Stephen-

0.1 soon to be wifey (hopefully)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer-wifey's pooch)
1.0 norm corn (Jake aka grumpy old terdhead)
0.1 col redtail boa (Dixie-my baby girl)
0.1 ball python (Bella- wifey's baby girl)

hopeful for not to distant future:
--brazillian rainbow boas 1 female for sure
2 or 3? maybe a breeding pair?

more distant future hopefuls
1 or 2 of each maybe a breeding pair?
--anery boa (ooooh)
--jungle carpet python (love to have 1 or 2)
--dumeril boa (ahhhh)

slightly more wishful thinking
--hypo br rainbow boa (love em)
--anery br rainbow boa (oooh even better!!)
--motely boa (gorgeous!!)

Well the key would be good hides.

The problem with larger enclosures, other then thermogradient, is stress on the snake. Most snakes feel most secure and safe in small enclosed locations. A large enclosure, assuming thermogradient is not a problem, should work fine as long as you have appropriate hides throughout the enclosure so that there is always one within easy reach of the snake. You also need to have then spread out throughout the enclosure so there is always a hide at the temperature the snake desires.

Hope this helps,

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

Thanks for your responses, guys.
Dave, they are in fact thermometer's-not thermostats. My bad. The digital thermometer on the back wall is low enough that snake's body hits it- it's not 10" in the air. It is battery operated (brand new at the moment) and made by Flukers. Tells temp & humidity. Roughly 74 degrees at ground level and the Red Cypress bedding is about 85 degrees. Albeit a large tank I would prefer not to buy a larger tank for three snakes every 6 months. I prefer they grow into a large tank. That being said, the tank is equipped with several rocks and fake foiliage provided many places to enjoy a nap. In fact they like to burrow under the cypress. I mist tank every other day or so, and have covered all top vents on the Vision cage with thick clear plastic in which I have an aquarium light fixed to a timer for daytime lighting for 12 hrs. The Vision cage maintains the humidity VERY well using only the slot between the pieces of glass for ventilation (Jeff Clarks idea and works great). I have also afixed a piece of 1" PVC pipe across the tank and often find the snakes sitting on it in the evening. Having raised snakes 15 years ago and getting back into now, I never had big tank/ little snake issues. I always remove the snake from the cage for feeding and put them in a small rubbermaid container. This allows me to handle them for a period prior to feeding. As a plumber I laughed when I discovered "radiant heat" for reptiles and have had no experience with it in the past. The Flexwatts are running through a dimmer switch- the same type you use for your house lighting. No thermostats are used, but in the future I will pick a few up. What thermostats are recommended these day's? And where to purchase online? 15 years ago my BRB's cost $375 each and Dumerils $400 each. I can't recall what I paid for the Chondro's. I had to go to the White Plains, NY show to get them. Albino Boa's were practically unheard of back then. My how the internet has changed the market...Thanks again for your thought's, look forward to hearing from you. Just4fun- you gotta get some sleep buddy....

Brb's thrive on security. So for instance if you kept a 8 foot by 8 foot cage with only one hide with no substrate. If the temps checked out to be 81 everywhere in the cage except the hide where it registered a temp of 88, now where would the brb hide??? Not that any tests have been done but very few snakes would leave the security of the hide that is actually killing them with heat that is dehydrating themselves, if you do agree with this sort of then we both agree that snakes are in fact DUMB Having a brb or three in a 3 foot cage is not the norm by any means and if you don't have to buy an extra cage then great but getting a 4 x 2 cage with a divider is the way to go but with my animals I provide the best environment that I am able to provide for my animals. Like me, I would not have my male het hypo in a cage with my female hypo and het female cuz I do not want anything to happen any of my animals even the ugly normals Not trying to discourage you from thinking that bigger is better or you can't house multiple animals together. Hell you can keep 3 snakes in a cage and feed them all at the same time with 3 live rodents running around watching the snakes very very closely, is this wrong or not. What is wrong? Is something right until it goes wrong? I think a 3 foot cage is a little overkill for a baby just overkill but I think keeping more than one animal together is not right but with great husbandry mishaps can be avoided just simply not worth it to me or my animals or the potential problem and/or situations that I may put my snakes in is the part I would have trouble with cuz I believe they are solitary animals and I have to live life everyday knowing I created that situation and that is not something I want on my plate to be completely honest with you cuz I have much bigger problems than that, just food for thought. If putting a 2 foot bci in a 4 x 2 cage was best then Jeff Ronne would have been doing this in 1980 IMO. There is about a good chance that the brb's were kept in shoeboxes at the breeders which measured 6 x 10 if they were big but prolly 4 wide. 3 foot cage would be 14 times bigger and 72 if you calculate the height not saying that is wasn't time to move up or not and Jeff's brb's grow FAST cuz they are definately eating right at his place on his rats and mine was very very tame even after being lost for a day in shipping. There is my defense to the threads originator's malicious comments NOTlol Stephen. Just throwing my .01 in the equation and the ONLY way to go a true reading and controlling temps to the T and try to take out all the room for error so all your snakes can thrive in small, big, and as small as one occupant to as many as having like a quintuplet in that mother lol

1- temp gun (I will buy Ray-tek next go around)
2- Herpstat Pro digital proportional thermostat
3- great caging

Helix is another option but a one channel cost about $140 with a 4 foot probe cord (mine is 3 foot so they lied) and no night drop feature is included but is extra and comes in an extra cable for you look at or hide. Herpstat has 10 foot probes and the Pro has 4 independent channels and night time drop already in there with no wires to run and the ntd feature is a must for breeding.
Bob

p.s. don't take anything the wrong way cuz life is too short!!!!!!!!

lol thanks, its all good your .01 is what i was looking for. and i like to think im a good question asker to get wnswers that help not just me!

anyways nicely put and i myself agree with what you have to say, but i also think there are two ways of looking at it...

#1 being the breeders view... thats pretty much what you have to say. all good stuff

on the other hand is #2 the hobbist's view which i think is one of more convenince. its easier for you to have proper set-ups and right size cageing for little to big snakes. whereas someone with a new snake doesnt want to buy 2 or three diff cages for the same snake, just wants that one time set up and leave it at that (just one exe). but a little advice from everyone is great to find a good comprimise.

thats why this forum is so good, once you get past all off the snoody know-it-alls who are never wrong (ie BOB!!!) lol JK
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-Stephen-

0.1 soon to be wifey (hopefully)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer-wifey's pooch)
1.0 norm corn (Jake aka grumpy old terdhead)
0.1 col redtail boa (Dixie-my baby girl)
0.1 ball python (Bella- wifey's baby girl)

hopeful for not to distant future:
--brazillian rainbow boas 1 female for sure
2 or 3? maybe a breeding pair?

more distant future hopefuls
1 or 2 of each maybe a breeding pair?
--anery boa (ooooh)
--jungle carpet python (love to have 1 or 2)
--dumeril boa (ahhhh)

slightly more wishful thinking
--hypo br rainbow boa (love em)
--anery br rainbow boa (oooh even better!!)
--motely boa (gorgeous!!)

I hope it came out right cuz I tried hard at it cuz arguing if better left on the boa forum than here. I don't plan on ever being breeder or anything like that but I do plan on having a few litters every year (prolly 7 at most starting at 2 the first year then 4 or 5 the year after) but nothing plain jane so I guess I might have a breeder's opinion but I would consider myself a hobbyist. I only do things right and one time only or I try oh so very hard to so with careful thinking. I have one rack system and I just got some iris cb110's in today after a back order on them since late november for crying out loud. I will build a few shoebox racks that will sit on top of my iris cb110 racks which will only be 4 foot tall and my boaphile rack will be my quarantine rack since ALL snakes should be quarantined upon arrival and stay put for some time but some people get the lead foot jump the gun and the rest of their collection suffers for their mishap and better judgement of the owner in which the snake has no say so and you have total control. Stephen which part of my post sounded like a breeder out of curiosity? If the best thing for my snakes was to switch into 4 different sized enclosures during the duration of their lives then G-d dammit they are getting 4 of them. If they are happier with 9 different shades of hot pink water bowls at one time in the cage than Bob will get them 9 bowls with different shades of hot pink in the cage at one time. thanks for chatting and if you like asking ?'s then I like rambling
Bob

Of course little snakes will do just fine in a large enclosure, what do people think they do in the wild? Real point it that they have a variety of appropriately sized hides. Babies feel hidden when they are crammed into some little space, the smaller the better. Or even better yet burrowed into the forest litter under/around some log/rock. And that those hides are plentiful and easily gotten to at all times. The increasing size enclosures are really a multi snake keepers conception, only using as little overall space as necessary. A little shoebox for the first 6 - 9 months, then a sweaterbox, then a blanketbox, finally an adult sized cage. If you do that, you can keep more animals in a smaller overall space.

Multiple animals in one enclosure CAN work out fine BUT, when it does not, can be catastrophic!!! More likely to be an issue with babies and sub adults.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats