Reptile & Amphibian Forums

While herping the wild kingdom of craigslist.com, this beauty was quite a find!! He/she seems to have been kept at the right temps and at a healthy weight, but was neglected by its previous owner at least by being provided an inadequate enclosure (probably unintentionally).

My first concern is the unshed eyecap scale and whatever is going on in this guy or girl's mouth. I was told it ate today just before I came to pick it up. Does this look like mouth rot? Any treatment recomendations?

Also, I kept a couple of milk snakes in high school years ago, but lately have focused on a small group of hognose snakes and carpet pythons. Would this be considered a Hypo or Tangerine? I haven't kept up with the Hondo world. Thanks for all the helpful posts!!! Adam

It's impossible to say exactly just how it got that way, but if it DID eat,..that is a wonderful sign. But the mouth and eye do NOT look good. Judging by it's gaped mouth, it does look like it's showing at least beginning signs of infectious stomatitis(mouth rot). I would first GENTLY pry the snake's mouth open with a blunt object,and look to see if there is any "cheesy looking" substance that's visible. If there is, gently remove any you see, then follow up with putting some peroxide, and/or Betadine in the mouth with a small syringe or eye dropper. Do this twice a day for approx. two weeks. You should see a DEFINITE improvement by then, even before, but keep treating it, as you want to get rid of ALL of it, and prevent any reocurrence.

The snake's ocular scale(eye-cap) looks like it could have a previous shed still on it, or even an old rodent bite(hard to tell). Put the snake in a pillow case that has been stuffed with moist spagnum moss. Then put the bag into the snakes secured enclosure, or something similar, so it doesn't escape. This has been known to happen fairly frequently, as snake's sometimes vigorously work the corners of the bag to escape. Leave the snake in the moistened bag at LEAST 24 hours, this will allow the extra thick stubborn skin a chance to absorb the moisture from the moss. When you take the snake out the next day, you should be able to VERY GENTLY work the edge of the ocular scale with a pair of tweezers to gently take off the outer shed. Administer a little dab of antibiotic oitment to the eye afterwards to help combat any bacteria that was harbored underneath.

If this DOESN'T do the job, the snake needs to be seen by a qualified reptile vet as soon as possible. The snake probably has a great chance for recovery if this is done very soon, but if left untreated, this can get very bad, and lead to the snakes death.

Hope this helps!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Nice find!

Follow Doug's advice and be sure to keep your new Hondo as far away from your other animals as possible and to wash your hands after handling him.

Also, if you offer him a meal and he refuses DO NOT offer the same meal to one of your other animals..

Basic husbandry stuff that you may already know, but i thought it was worth mentioning!

Good luck working on getting him healthy!

~ Mike Russo

Doug's advice is "right on the money." Though if the eyecap doesn't come off easily, you may just want to wait until the snake goes through its next shed cycle. With the right humidity, the old cap may come off with the shed skin.

Mouth rot it pretty easy to cure as long as it's not too far advanced. Another reason why the snake may be keeping its mouth open could be a respiratory infection. Like Doug said, the "cheesy" substance is what to look for when diagnosing mouth rot.

That snake looks like a hypo to me. Adult normals are hardly ever that "clean."

Tim

Third Eye

Another thing with the eye cap is there may be more then one shed stuck on it. If you remove one and it still looks hazy repeat the whole process a few days later. The moisture my not reach the stuck caps below.

We once took in a retic with so many stuck eye caps that the eye was just a grey/silver circle. it took many months and numerous bites to finally get to the eye.
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

The other guys are dead on as usual.

One other thing that may be causing the eye to look that way are mites. I've seen mites do similar damage to snakes eyes and they tend to hang out around the eye and cause more damage and irritation.

Another easy way to remove an eye cap is by using clear tape. After you prepare the snake like Mr. Mong was describing...if the eye cap is still present, then you can take some clear tape and with a blotting motion try and stick the tape to just the eye cap. This usually removes the eye cap with ease.

Oh, and the snake is a Hypo Tangerine in my opinion.

-RG

What an awesome forum ... thanks for all your help!! He/She found its way from a dry hide box to a moist hide container of sphagnum moss so hopefully moisture will be part of what it was missing. This snake's recent conditions were probably too cold as well as too dry here in MN, the previous owner was using only an undertank heat pad beneath about 3 inches of sand and a very small and shallow water dish. One concern is that if part of the prob. is respiratory then will the moisture make that worse? Sure appreciate the advice! Adam

In the short time(24 hrs. or so) it takes to moisten the ocular scale and the rest of the snake, it won't really make a difference one way, or another. The fact is, getting that old shed off is PARAMOUNT right now.

Just in case there is a respiratory issue, hold the snake's head close to your ear, and listen for tell-tale noises which can be signs of R.I.(wheezing, clicking, etc...) make sure you keep the snake close to your ear long enough to see any pattern.
If it DOES exhibit these "funny" noises, it could greatly benefit being put in a warmer environment(mid 80's) for a two week period. Really though, if that IS the case, I would recommend a fast vet visit for the administration of antibiotics such as Amikacin, or Batryl in conjunction with the slightly elevated temps.

Good luck!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Good reasoning, thanks! I'll post an update.

--Adam

A quick thought on the moisture and respitory infections. Is the snake exhibiting any indication of wheezing or a cough. Believe it or not, it is pretty typical for these symptoms to go along with a respitory condition. Even if the snake had a respitory condition, the right amout of moisture for the snake should not complicate that condition, although I would avoid excess moisture in the enclosure. The pillow case and moss should be fine especially since it seems as though you have an escape route available for him/her back to the main enclosure. Try to make sure she spends enough time in the pillow case though to help remove the eye cap. I try to stay away from "sand" as a bedding for my hondurans as it is easily injested. Carefresh bedding or aspen seem to work just fine. Did you see any sign of mouth rot when examining the snakes mouth?

Good luck and please post an update soon.

Thanks

Chris

I’m really getting to like this little guy (still unsexed). It has been practically living in its moist hide of dampened moss, which I have partly over under-tank heat, only coming out to drink and pass its meals. The woman I picked it up from said it fed that day, I’ve since got it to take a mouse as well. Now it’s blue and I’m hoping it has the best shed of its life. I will be paying particularly close attention to the ocular scale, which I can only expect is still there, but looks 100% better with increased humidity.

When I inspected this tolerant little snake’s mouth, I didn’t see anything that seemed unusual. I also was unable to hear any sort of obstructed breathing. I’ll post an updated picture post-shed. Thanks for LOTS of help! Adam

Good to hear that the snake is eating!. When I looked at your original photo of the snake again, there were some dry looking infralabial(lower lip)scales that didn't come off with the previous shed(s), which could have been the cause of the gaping mouth. The snake probably was able to rub those off while burrowing through the moistened moss. Actually, when I mentioned putting the snake in the pillow case of moistened moss, when it goes into shed, I meant LITERALLY!, as in put the snake in, and tie off the bag so it STAYS there for at least 24 hrs. or so. This way, it forces the snake to hydrate the old shed skin.

Anyway, the snake will shed it's skin two to five days AFTER the eyes are totally clear again from the "opaque cycle". So the first day the snake shows clear eyes is the PERFECT time to put the snake into the pillowcase of moistened moss and tie a knot in it. As mentioned before, leave the snake in there for as long as it takes to shed completely!,......you can take the snake out once a day to inspect to see if it has accomplished the shed, of course, focusing on the ocular scale, as well as the entire rest of it's body.

Good luck with your new acquisition!......keep us posted on it's progress!

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"