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Ever since my Roswell boa was born back in September, he has become the subject of much debate about the cause behind the striping...

I firmly believe it is genetic, simply because the similarity between him and his two stillborn siblings is just too perfect...

There are quite a few others who think it is purely environmental, that either high or low temperatures caused this abnormality...

I took some better images of the stillborn siblings, to compare to the live Roswell...

Based on these new pictures, I would like to hear everyone's honest opinion either way...is the Roswell genetic, or simply an abberant boa created by temperature/other environmental issues?

Please explain what about their appearance leads you to your answer...thanks.

Albino and 66% het stillborns...

And the live Roswell...

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Heather Martin
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Heather, Let me start off by saying that the Roswell is hands down one of the most unique and amazing looking boas I've ever seen. You should be thrilled to have her/him and instead of trying to sell her/him keep and prove/disprove her/his genetics. I may be wrong but I sensed a little frustration in the tone of your thread and I can feel for you on that one having had numerous big name boa people tell me the Aztecs were not genetic. But time and tide proved them not to be correct. In closing let me say I think you have a one of a kind animal and wish you the best of luck in the future. Take care and good luck breeding this year. Andrew

All genetic trait(s) must be proven(replicated with greater/lesser degree per particular expression)
Without breeding trails both sides will remain speculative.

No shortcuts to fame in this game
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TnK

Believe me I do understand that only breeding trials will prove it conclusively either way...the purpose of the post was just to hear opinions...

The original photos I took of the stillborns were not very good, I wanted to get these up to show how much the three were alike...
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Heather Martin
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TnK stated it best and I hope you were not offended by my comments in my reply to your post below. I was simply pointing out that pattern mutations can be environmental as well as genetic. I'm sure everyone in the boa community would LOVE to see a new morph so let's keep our fingers crossed! In fact, we're long overdue (when compared to ball pythons). Either way, there is no doubt that you have something unique and beautiful. I'm not sure why it matters what others think????

Carl3, I was not offended at all by the previous post...I put this thread here because I wanted to show the cleaned up pics and hear honest opinions...

This little guy came from my first litter ever...there are other breeders here who have been doing this a lot longer than me and have surely seen the strange and bizzare show up in their own litters...just wanted to see what they might think, from their own longer experience...
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Heather Martin
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That is so cool. How about buying some lotto tickets for me?
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Did you post pics of the parents? if so, can you point me to where you posted them?...if not, can you post them?
~ Jason

The parents were siblings, 50/50 Suriname 100% hets for Kahl albino...

Here's mom...

And dad...

Dad breeding mom's sister...

The sister, Stella, currently gravid...

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Heather Martin
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I know like several other people racking thier brain over this it ind of reminds me a lot of tiger retics. the super form is simular as well. It isa bit more aberrant but hopefully there is something there genetic and we get to see more amazing snakes.
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My Photobucket

well in my opinion it seems genetic. the amount of roswell babies was almost equal to that of the albino babies. if i remember correctly it was a smaller litter. the appearance is almost the same with all 3 roswells as well which does somewhat support the answer. When breeding het to het roughly /4 the babies will show that trait. Just my 2c
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My Photobucket

I f I had to guess either way I would have to say genetic. With that said, I agree 100% with Andrew. Keep it and prove it, instead of selling it now. I know he has a hefty price tag on him, but that snake proven would be worth more then that when combined with his proven offspring. I know this is not just for the $$ but if you prove it out you would be better off then just selling him now. Im sure Pete Kahl is glad he proved out the albinos, and the Pied Balls. Just my oppinions.

Lets just chalk it up to the competitive nature of tha biz, there's always way too many people out there that just love to down talk someones else's "project". Why? They don't own it. They didn't think of it. They don't want the competition. There goes market share to something with the possibility of greater acceptance and more merit.

Most times, they'd be happy to talk you out of it for nothing if they could. And before you know it, they'll be shamelessly promoting the merits of their new "project", without so much as a mention of you, of course. Been known to happen.

Don't worry about the detractors.

I'll put my money on genetic.

You've got it goin' on. Don't let anyone tell you different.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Heather:

People have been breeding boas for many years and I would guess that tens of thousands have been produced. Some of those babies have been born with abarencies caused by high, low or differential heat temperatures experienced by the mother during gestation. These aberancies show up as inconsistant patterns. Each baby born from the effected litter shows up with a little bit different pattern, no two siblings from a heat effected litter shows up with the exact same pattern.

What I find unique about Roswell is the obvious similarities between him and his siblings. Note the exactness of the lines and not only that, but where the lines start and stop.

I agree with everyone else that only breeding him will prove his gnetics.

We're all keeping our fingers crossed for you.

Be strong.

Brian
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Brian Gundy

www.for-goodness-snakes.com

Heather after viewing these pics.

I came to the conclusion that it is genetic.

The similarity of the siblings is Uncanny !!!!

They almost look like clones or Tripletts !!!

I know that you probably need the money right now....as all of us do.

However your Paycheck will come with patience.

You will have a much bigger paycheck if you Keep Him !!!!

You HAVE TO KEEP HIM !!!

Good Luck Heather and Keep your Chin Up !!!
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Ashley Lopez's Black Forest Constrictors.

blackforestconstrictors@gmail.com

WWW.BLACKFORESTCONSTRICTORS.COM

Hey Heather,

I really much more a reader, and do not post a lot, but now I logged on specially.

I am very convinced these animals are genetic. I think your pregnant female will also be carrying stripeds.

Striping caused by temp issues are very variable. They are more abys than stripeds. People saying this are very jalous or very stupid.

greetings

I agree with most posters that this will prove genetic in the future since it was almost 1/4 on the outcome of that breeding. I don't agree with one poster that your pregnant female (sister to Roswell's momma) will also be carrying reverse stripes as well unless she has the gene too. So in reality I'm assuming this trio was bought from one breeder where one of his parents is carrying the hidden gene so that gives 50% of the offspring from that parent a chance to carry the gene. Now if your other female hits too then you may want to start playing the lotto on a regular basis. Heather the only thing I don't like is the name to your boa but other than that it is pretty cool looking to say the least. My ? is do you work towards a making it more suri or do you just let him hump everything under the bci sun since there are no proven suri morphs (please forgive me if I forgot one)? I bet the breeder you got it from might be holding some back himself to mate it to one parents or both, several of the offspring mate so don't sell until you have too many you can't count and if you do work it into another morph then do it now and get ahead of everyone you sell it too, my thoughts on it and best of luck this season
Bob

I would like to work more Suriname blood into this project, one because that is what I had originally planned with the trio I purchased...the Suriname influence just makes the albinos look so much better...

Two, this allows me to outcross the project with fresh blood...

I am not ruling out breedings with BCI boas, but it would be selective...for a specific outcome...Sunglow Roswell, etc...
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Heather Martin
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I am glad you are going the suri route as that was the route you planned on and a lot of people would just start diluting it with colombian morph influence for financial gain but having a 50/50 suri/colo. with a col (why seriously). It will be nice to get that albino Roswell since all of his offspring are guaranteed het carriers for both mutations. Yes I believe the hypo/salmon gene for the sunglow should be added as well but I think you should only use the best looking hypo suri out the litter to ensure that you are trying to get the suri look back into it so to speak. Sounds like a project there and I wish you the best of luck Heather
Bob

If I need a Columbian morph, I will try to find an animal that already has some BCC blood in there already...I think this just helps so much with strenthening the genetics especially with any morph involving the Kahl albino gene...

I am very interested to see if the Roswell is indeed a het for albino...I would like to put him with a female that is at least 1/8 Suriname...I would definitely not put him on the first Columbian Kahl albino I found...
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Heather Martin
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I pretty much agree I like the pairings

Roswell x Suri (not guaranteed the albino or proving it out though but working towards the suri end of the spectrum)
Roswell x Roswell (the worst thing that happens if that it produces something else)
ablino Roswell x Suri (great pairing)

Maybe eventually I would plug it in the Harlequin with some suri blood in it, and if you had to choose a kahl albino then I would go with either a Lipstick or one from the Red line. Was I talking to myself or you on that onelol (that's what happens when I get excited)
Bob

Does the aunt also have a laddertail like your other two? I would also have to agree the head does look like a super motley also and Vinnie has very good eyes and a great observation.

Yes, the aunt has ladders...they are not quite as clean as her brother and sister but the connected saddles/laddertail pattern is defintely there...
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Heather Martin
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I would not breed the Roswell Boa first to an Albino. The animals I would breed him with are listed below in order of importance:

1. The most important animal for him to breed will be his Auntie if you prove her to make some of those puppies too.*

2. Next most important would be his Mother in my opinion.**

3. I would try to breed him with the best Double Het for Sunglow you can get your hands on.***

4. Then I would try an Albino.****

* In the event this is a simple recessive trait, Auntie, if proven, will give you more of those kids that are not as inbred as babies from Mommy will be.

** Again, if a simple recessive trait, Mommy will make you half a litter of those puppies and prove that it is at least genetic if not tell you yet if it is simple recessive or a dominant trait.

*** Double Hets are relatively easy to breed. Especially compared to Albinos.

**** Albinos are not the easiest animals on the planet to breed and you really need to firt prove him out by making babies. So I would use something that is easier to breed to increase your likeihood of making more Roswell Puppies.

That's my 2 cents worth and worth every penny too.
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Boaphile Home
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All good suggestions, Jeff..

I have been going back and forth about putting him with his aunt...I worry a bit because he is already an F2...

I suspect that he is the super form of the connected saddles/laddertail pattern...I may try to find the most 'classic' tailed Suriname female I can for him...if all the babies come out with the laddertail pattern, this will say a lot about what is going on...

Of course it is also possible I may get 50% Roswells with any female I breed him to, if that is the way the genes go...
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Heather Martin
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I want you to make more of those babies. A Suriname, while possible to breed successfully, is not as reliable as trying to breed a Colombian female. Yes, more Suriname blood in the project would be good. Yes, more Surname RED would be really cool. But far more important than either of those two, is that you make more. Right now there is only one. If that is not a simple recessive trait, then there REALLY is only one animal that is likely to make more of those if genetic. Again, just my 2 cents worth but I would first and foremost want to make offspring from that male and would use the easiest or most likely to breed Boa possible and that is not a Surname but a Colombian.
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Boaphile Home
All Original/Boaphile Plastics
The Boa Network

Jeff would you still mate the Roswell to the aunt if she doesn't produce a Roswell this year with the same father pretty much excluding her (the sister) as a het carrier (if it does prove recessive)? It just seems like anything carrying the albino gene has way too many ties to the colombian side so mating an albino Roswell x Suri would result in a much better looking end result and the best result for Heather's goals if she wants to go the suri end of the rainbow. Thanks for the input and hope that monstertail has plenty of amazing motleys in the oven for you this year
Bob

I would also be interested in seeing what some high red pastels would do to it. or even anery/snow.
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My Photobucket

I agree that it seems genetic considering the siblings. I wonder if the reason the big players who would be in a position to acquire a new morph are standing back is because a striped boa is now achievable with other lines, e.g. many super jungles are totally striped, etc. Those that might put down 3 figures for the leucistic boa might not feel this one has as much commercial value, even if unique. Mark

I don't think it's genetic. For that reason am only willing to offer you the really generous sum of $500 for the Roswell animal. I mean really, he is just a nice looking Boa and certainly not genetic. At best it's the result of selective breeding right? Come now, you can tell us the truth can't you? If not selective breeding, it is just the result of the crossed blood lines. Suriname X Colombian that is, made those funky babies and we know they aren't genetic right? That is why now after typing all this, that I am now willing to give you $1000 for the Roswell Boa and his mother. I only want his mother because I think she is pretty. I would never in a million years ever think about breeding him back to her to see if I could make more. I know this $1000 offer is generous of me. Oh shoot, how about $1500? But don't tell anyone I much I paid for them. I wouldn't want them to think I am stupid or something. Deal?

Sounds like some of the garbage you have heard doesn't it? I know I have heard it. You hear these things mainly from people who are fundamentally dishonest and HUGELY jealous of what you have your hands on. I have seen it happen. I have watched the people who, because they don't have or aren't involved in a project, will spew their venom in an attempt to diminish your project Heather. But don't listen to them.

Nobody who has thought this through thinks it is NOT genetic. We can certainly say we do not know for sure yet. But, all indicators are that it is genetic. Given the results of the breeding and the identical looks of those babies. Plus the fact that none of the "normal" or non-Roswell animals show any hint of that look, tells me that it is genetic.

Just as I told you when you first posted those babies. Don't sell any of them. Keep them all and make lots more. The more you have in one place, the greater likelihood that you will be able to reproduce lots lots more so we can all own some one day.

Good luck with your great project and don't let the detractors worry you. You are worrying them. They should not worry you.
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jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

But yes I have received a number of offers only slightly less pathetic than yours, LOL...

I got some really nasty responses, too, when I turned these 'big spenders' down...

I caught a lot of flack over my classified, but I try not to take it personally...if someone has the money to take that kind of gamble, I am sure they understand the risks involved...it's not like I am forcing someone to buy the boa...

To some it might be worth it to have the first breedable Roswell male in a year or so...

Untill breeding trials are done, even the leucistic boa would be a gamble...But there are breeders who would be more than willing to take the chance if it were for sale...

I imagine the big breeders are waiting to see if more Roswells show up from the same pairing or the aunt, before I will get any serious offers on the 2007 male...though they will be in for a big suprise if they think he will still be for sale after that point, LOL...

Jeff, thanks for helping me keep some perspective...
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Heather Martin
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I too would be more then happy to match Jeff's offer lol. I however am not so sure it is genetic. I would however keep them all and try to prove it out, if it is genetic it is a project with a huge potential. I too am keeping something that I don't thik is genetic, but I hope I am wrong with mine as well as yours, good luck and have fun.

that thing reminds me of stonewash jeans lol
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My Photobucket

Just my guess that the Roswell is the super to the ladder tail connecting pattern siblings. I dunno why it just has the look of a super to me. I think its the look of the head. I know that sounds very uneducated to say but its just my gut.

I think, even though I saw the photo of the litter ages ago so am working off of memory-that the "Roswell" is the super, and the ladder tails are the codoms or visible hets-kind of reminded me of the motley-super motley-these are red tails right-50% het albino Suriname parents?

Tracy, the parents were siblings, 50/50 Surinam het for Kahl albino...they both displayed the connected saddles/laddertail pattern...

That odd shaped head is the dead giveaway...if you ignore the striping the head is just like a super motley...
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Heather Martin
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Heather,

I definately feel that it will PROVE to be genetic. I've heard stories of a "candy cane" boa that looked the same as this one. I believe the story is that this boa was a BCC. If I had to guess, Todd Smith's BCC mother to your animals was a "het" for this trait and you were lucky enough to prove out two 50% hets. Even if the aunt to the Roswell doesn't produce any Roswells, I believe the babies will be 50% het for Roswell. Just my thought as dumb as they may be. I'm also really hoping that Vince is right about the laddertails being hets.

Matt Crabe

I say, (although I would be curious as to others opinions as well) it doesn't really matter what people think, pro or not. Even the pro's have been wrong in the past. But it's yet to be proven.

Personally, I wouldn't let that Boa, or it's litter mates go for no kinda price. If it does prove Genetic, NOBODY else has them but you. I'm sure people wouldn't be quite so skeptical if you reproduced it in another litter.

Good luck!
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Richard Carew
Sunset BCI
You laugh at me cuz I'm different! I laugh at you cuz you're all the same.
Stop Inhumane and Illegal Practices

That is incredible...
I can't wait tell you produce with it...

Thanks
Josh Ketchum