Reptile & Amphibian Forums

what does that give you? thanks!

maybe, just maybe, a Pin.

Dave

Each egg would have the following probabilities:

50% Normal
50% Pinstripe

If it's homozygous Pinstripe, allowing for the possibility that such an animal exists, you would get all Pinstripes.
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Louis Kirkland
Cornerstone Reptiles

Do you really think there is a Super Pin, after all these years? I think Spiders and Pins are just plain ole Dom. But, they both make amazing crosses!

Dave

"Do you really think there is a Super Pin, after all these years? I think Spiders and Pins are just plain ole Dom."

that I thought there was a "Super Pin". If in fact Pinstripes are dominant, which they appear to be, the homozygous phenotype would be identical to the heterozygous phenotype.

That being the case, if in fact it is, there could be some homozygous Pinstripes in existence.

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Louis Kirkland
Cornerstone Reptiles

I think the Spider and Pin have had parallel existences...is there a super and if so, is it different or the same in appearance?

I think there is no super, and I think a Spider and Pin, ANY Spider, and any Pin, will give you over time, 50 percent morphs and 50 percent normals.

Dave

"ANY Spider, and any Pin, will give you over time, 50 percent morphs and 50 percent normals"

If this continues to hold true even after lots of potential homozygous spiders and pins have been produced by breeding two spiders or two pins and then those 33% chance possible homozygous animals are bred and none ever prove to be homozygous by producing large numbers of only spiders or pins when bred to normals then it would be evidence that the homozygous animals don't survive or breed. Probably a little too early to jump to that conclusion with pinstripe and even with spiders the jury is still out.

sorry but what do you mean if its het pin or homo pin? if its a visual pinstripe than its a homo? no? thanks!

"sorry but what do you mean if its het pin or homo pin? if its a visual pinstripe than its a homo? no? thanks!"

Heterozygous describes two different alleles at one locus. In the case of a heterozygous Pinstripe, one allele would be Pinstripe and the other normal.

Homozygous describes two identical alleles at one locus. In the case of a homozygous Pinstripe, (which to my knowledge has not been proven to exist), both alleles would be Pinstripe.

If Pinstripes are dominant, which they are generally thought to be, the phenotype or appearance would be the same in either case.
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Louis Kirkland
Cornerstone Reptiles

Pinstripes are dominant. You should get 50/50.
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I'm the one you're not supposed to speak of!

The reason pinstripes so far have produced 50% chance pinstripe eggs bred to normals is because those pinstripes are heterozygous for the pinstripe mutation and has nothing to do with if pinstripe is a dominant to normal type mutation.

A ball python has two copies of the gene at the pinstripe (or any) location. One from its mom and one from its dad. In a heterozygous animal, it inherited a mismatched set, per the definition of heterozygous. In this case a normal for pinstripe version from one parent and a pinstripe mutant version from the other. When that heterozygous pinstripe (which is a visible mutant) breeds it randomly picks one of its two versions of the pinstripe gene to pass one. Each baby has a 50/50 chance of getting the pinstripe mutant version from a given pinstripe parent.

Now if both parents are pinstripe there is in theory a 25% chance of getting the pinstripe version from both to produce a homozygous pinstripe. If the homozygous pinstripe is produced and proven (through breeding and producing a large number of pinstripes only with normals) then if that homozygous pinstripe looks and acts just like the heterozygous pinstripes we've seen so far then the pinstripe mutation type will meet the definition of dominant.

With pinstripe it just may not have been long enough to prove a homozygous pinstripe yet. But until proven otherwise, there is always the possibility that two copies of a mutation are fatal and homozygous pinstripes just don’t hatch. Mutations are messing with the normal chemistry of an animal and while one mutant copy might not be a problem two might be.

See the link for some lethal mutant genes in mice.

Paul Hollander
Eva's mouse genetics page

Thanks. Certainly mice mutations are much better studied than ball python mutations. I don't suppose there are a lot of common genes much less common mutations between reptiles and mammals but I found the mention of megacolon interesting.

Over the years I've lost two unrelated snakes in the same project to something like that. We did all we could for the first one and when she eventually died anyway I had my vet examine her and he remarked that her intestines looked like a genetic condition he reported seeing in cats called megacolon. I lost the 2nd one a couple years later to similar situation but knock on wood no more in a couple of years since.

The symptoms where that after years of doing fine an adult suddenly became chronically constipated and no amount of soaking and massage seemed to help. In my case both where unproven possible hets so probably just coincidence they where in the same project as might well not have even shared one copy of the same mutant gene much less homozygous. But certainly something to watch out for.

Anyone else loose ball pythons to something like this and if so where there any known mutant genetics involved?

hey just wondering if i bred my pin to my furry monkey will i get 50% pin 50% furry monkey? i'm just wondering since everyone keeps saying they are Dom.

maybe you will? your so funny!