Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was wondering what anyone would think of these hondurans. There are two anerys, one is a normal black and the other is one that came from Terry Maherons Extreme hypo breeding. He almost looks like a ghost in that he is brown instead of black. The other female by itself is one I got from Jeff Aloway that came from the same extreme hypo breeding and is het anery , hypo and possibly het albino. She has a lot of tipping but she is a brownish gray color.

Hi Don,

I know you can't see everything in a pic, but from what I can see that looks like a Ghost and a Hypo. I produced a Hypo last year that was so tipped that we called it the ugly Hypo. I have also seen some Ghosts with a great deal of tipping on them. From what I can see in those pics they are both showing a reduction of black pigment.

Good luck!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC

Hey Don,

Here is pic of the Hypo I mentioned above.

Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC

The only problem is when they shed the skin still has pattern in it. If it were a hypo or ghost they shouldn't have pattern in the shed. I just wonder if that weird extreme Terry has is doing something to the pigments. Maybe an extreme anery or an extreme normal.

They do look different. Almost hypopigmented.

Vinny
-----
“There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that whilst this planet has gone on cycling according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” -C. Darwin, 1859

Natural Selection Reptiles

Glad you posted these Don, very interesting.

Personally I have never seen a hypo which sheds out pigment. If I did see what looked like a hypo but it shed any pigment at all I wouldn't call it a hypo, just a clean normal.

I don't think that any of these look hypo at all. I think when those anery's grow up they will gain a lot of tipping. More than a dirty ghost would. That normal tricolor definitely has that washed out extreme look to it. No question that there is something unique there and coming from that bloodline I think everyone has a good idea what it might be.

Also you don't often see anywhere near tha much tipping on the red bands in a hypo tricolor. I could be wrong but wouldn't you say that is grey tipping also? Also most hypo tricolors have more of an orange and that one seems to lean towards red although it does seem a little bit orange. It really is a strange honduran thats for sure.
-----
Jon Wedow
Sharp Dressed Snakes

I would agree Jon, and she does have a lot of tipping, she just doen't look normal. The two anerys together are different in that one is brown. It came from Terrys extreme. I was thinking it was a ghost but it still has pattern in the shed and I don't think ghosts do.

Hey Don,

I would agree that clean Hypos with less or no tipping are more attractive, but I do not think that tipping is a determining factor for whether a snake is Hypo or not. I have seen Hypo to Hypo pairings that have produced snakes that obviously show a reduction of black pigment, but none the less are still Hypos. Some Extreme Hypos have tipping on them. Here is a pic of a very tipped Ghost, which also happens to be Het for Albino.

Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC

Here are a few TriColor Hypos that also show some tipping,one of which is quite a bit darker than the one in Don's pic. The darker one was produced by Terry Dunham.

Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC

Correction,

I have seen Hypo to Hypo pairings that have produced snakes that obviously show a reduction of black pigment (and quite a bit of tipping), but none the less are still Hypos.

Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC

Yeah Joe,.......I'd have to agree on that as well. The fact that an animal is displaying hypomelanism to any degree, doesn't "necessarily" mean they must not, or cannot display a certain amount of tipping, as we all know, even some "extremes"......we as herpetoculturists are just much more ""USED" to seeing the the more advanced cases of hypomelanism without any, or much tipping. After all, if the pigmented pattern of the animal is substantially reduced, it quite literally fits the "hypo" definition, even if moderately/heavily tipped.

Don's posted snake doesn't "seem" to be what most might classify as a "typical" hypo(in the tricolor's case).But also, as most of us have become accustomed to these(and ghosts) to have no visible pattern in the shed, I don't quite think that it absolutely "HAS" to be a "prerequisite" for them to be classified as a hypo, we are just used to seeing the vast majority of these two types of mutation(s) not exhibiting ANY melanin in their sheds. It seems to me from seeing many other "iffy" types of hypo snakes as well, that it can sometimes be very dificult to distinguish as to where one phenotypic "look" for a certain trait stops, and another continues. Where EXACTLY is that very thin line?........that can sometimes be an almost 50/50 call. Later test breeding of those will certainly prove some traits later on though.

This is just my opinion of things based on many contributing factors.

best regards, ~Doug
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Hi Doug,

She is in shed now, so I will try to remember to take a pic of the shed and post it. I don't remember if the previous sheds showed any pattern or not.

Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC

n/p
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Out of curiosity, what does that particular ghost's shed look like?,.........any pattern/tipping at all?

~Doug
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Don, Like we talked about on the phone I think its just the extreme showing without any other morphs involved (i.e. amel hypo etc..).
Very cool indeed.

Shannon

Did Terry breed the extreme to a normal, or something not hypo? Why would this snake revert back to a wild type pattern?
-----
"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

The Tri-colored came from the extreme to triple het breeding. If I remember correctly it looked pretty much normal when I got it. It seems it just started changing in the last year or so. The anery I got from Terry is that same extreme bred to I think a triple het. When I got her she looked pretty much like an anery until I got an anery and together they looked totally different. I hope to breed them and see what happens.
Don Shores
Shores Enuff Snakes

That would make it seem like the mystery extreme is not compatible with the hypo, otherwise the extreme X het should have displayed the visual hypo?

It gives credence to Shannon's theory that there are more then one hypo genes out there.

I am sure it will contribute some interesting things to you alreadu impressive Hondo arsenal.

-----
"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

I really like that hypo. The markings are pretty dark but it has very little to no tipping. Randy W.

Don that is correct ,The mystery male bred to a triple het,both of those really look different,here is the sibling Terry M

Boy Terry, that is one nice honduran. Isn't it a female to go with the awesome male. Those are what make me love hondurans. Can't wait to see what hatches out this year.

I second the motion on that one Don.

Don,that is a male,here is a picture of the female,Terry

Terry, I sure like those. Hope you hatch a few this year so I can get some. Don

Don you don't need any more hondurans ...

Terry send me a couple nice ones this year !
-----
Jon Wedow
Sharp Dressed Snakes

I'm always amazed at how unusual the color of the markings on that one and the other extreme from that clutch that you post are. It's such of a more bluish color than the other lines of extremes out there. Very cool Terry! And just when some were starting to think a hypo was a hypo was a hypo. Randy W.