Reptile & Amphibian Forums

It's seems that I see more breeders working with D. jani more often then D. deppei. That may or may not be true, just going by what I perceive.
Is d. deppei a little more sensitive as far as husbandry goes? Are jani the better choice if you've never worked with either one? Any other slight differences as far as color, saddle or scale count, personalities, size, etc. Thanks in advance.

Steve
-----
"Book ‘em, Danno”

Good questions. Here is my take on those two subspecies. there are differences in scale counts, saddle counts, and coloration (see olive Stull's work and Duellman's later work for details).Both groups are considered "ugly ducklings" that can go through a major color change in early adulthood. Jani have been selectively bred in the pet trade for color and generally speaking jani tend to be a bit more colorful although the folks over at Splitrock reptiles have some brightly colored locality deppei deppei. there is a great deal of variation among populations and individuals in both groups but the nominant form, deppei deppei seems to have the most dramatic range of variation. I have individual animals with a bright "green banana" ground color, others with absolute black and white ground color(offset with a neat redish brown head color!), animals with super clean ground color others with an almost speckled apperance, some with bright yellow tails, orange tails or even reddish tails, etc. You get the idea. John Cheery has always had some of the very nicest and varied deppei!

I ended up with a locality group that included an anertheristic reccesive gene. Unfortunetly I was just learning how to keep them and I believe the gene carried some other trait that weakened the animals and they simply did not do well. We later isolated a gene that displays hypo-melanism and often a pattern aberancy. These animals are stronger and we learned how to satisfy their needs and ended up keeping them alive. The genetic origin of that set of genes was a big black and white (I'm talking northern pine black and white), locality male.

As I see it the trick, if you want to call it a trick, is to keep these animals a bit cooler with a distinct thermogradient. Their biochemistry, imune systems, etc will benefit and they will thrive. You can keep them alive without these settings but our experience is that they do not thrive. they originate from habitats that are higher elevation and therefor experience cooler overall temps with fairly dramatic daily fluctuations in high and low temps. they seem to be most sensative to this as young animals. But remember even snakes from cooler regions can get out in the sun and shoot their body temp up if needed to digest a meal, fight off a digestive pathogen, etc. so provide that oppotunity with your thermogradient. My adults are feeding machines! I had a large green male that I gave to a friend and that snake pounds really big rats always!

typical Pituophis in that they will give you a bite but would rather bluff, not flighty like the Santa Cruze Island gophers (P. c. pumilus), fairly calm and observent. They do get really massive, maybe not 110 inch sayi giant but not very far behind. My male jani is nearly 7ft long and really girthy.

There is still alot to learn about the taxonomic condition of these two groups. Once throught to be a part of a larger group that included lineaticollis. there are individuals that may at least to some degree intergrade with annectans in the affinis range.

P.d.jani is most commonly described from the eastern range and P.d.deppei from the western range of the sierra madre but some new work may actually prove a third subspecies in the southern extent of their range.

Take home meassage is don't choose but rather get both groups and enjoy!

I had to down size this image so it is a bit grainy and gives the snake a dirtier look than real life.

John I must have been typing while you were or I would have held my two cent. You need to try and make it to Daytona this year. Randy Whittington

Randy, I always say that I am going to try and make it out there and then miss it. Maybe this year. I keep hoping that some German breeders will arrive at that show with legal pairs of the few Pituophis ssp. that I need to complete the collection.....fat chance right!

That snake looks like it is doing well for you.

Cheers, JG

John, I want to thank you for your reply, and wealth of information you posted on the subject. One thing that surprised me was on how large they could potentially get. I was thinking six foot range. Seven feet plus with some serious girth. That's a big pit, LOL
Pits seem to like it cooler then kings & corns, and looks to be even more important with d.jani and d.deppei. When I do venture into jani and/or deppei I want to make sure I know & have their husbandry down.
Very interesting with the endless range of colors in both subspecies. I would guess if you want a certain color, (high yellow etc.), going by what the breeders look like would give you a good idea of how the offspring may turn out?
Anyway, I know how much I'm enjoying my black pine, so it will be a pleasure working with some other pits in the near future. Thanks again,
Steve

-----
"Book ‘em, Danno”

Ginter,
Do range maps exist for deppei? I have never seen one.

Best
Joe
-----
http://www.hcu-tx.org
http://www.kingsnake.com/mexicana/
http://www.joeforks.com

I think the most important things with deppei deppei are to not keep them too hot and dont push them feeding wise, more so than with jani. Many people keep deppei deppei without a heat source in the low to mid seventies. I keep them the same as jani with a low of 73-74 and a warm spot of 84. I personally feel deppei deppei or deppei jani should ALWAYS have access to cool side. They both get over seven feet but deppei take longer. Both are awesome snakes. Randy W.

Thank you Randy for the reply. I think I've got down that it's important not to have these guys too warm. I keep my black pine cooler then my kings, corns, etc. so I'll double make sure that's the case with a jani or d. deppei.
I saw where you said you would be at Chantilly? When is that show? I saw manassass listed three different times on the 2008 schedule, but didn't see Chantilly listed.

Steve

-----
"Book ‘em, Danno”

It's the NARBC show just outside of DC that's about a month or so after Daytona. I assume it will be about the same time this year.

Hi Steve

I think both equily available. I think its a matter personal opinion on which is better.

I have had both speices. I personally like D Deppei better. I have great success with D Deppei. They seem hardier and I love their personality. Thats just my opinion. I know other people that have the opposite of opinion mine! There is no wrong or right answer.

I think Jani are beautiful. I have had 3 different pair of jani, I just never had good luck with them.

Jason

I've bred deppei deppei in the past then got out of them, but I do have more now, anyway... it is true they are a bit delicate when young. It is interesting to note when the I was able to obtain some lineaticollis from that first US breeding I was not sure about a feeding regime. Should they be fed sparingly like deppei deppei or can they be pushed more like some of the other Pituophis. It turned out that they can habdle rather heavy feedings and they too are a snake from elevation like deppei deppei.

One of the deppei deppei breeders I once had

Sometimes they striped necked individuals like this.
Scott John Reptiles