Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am still having trouble with Cleo, the mother of Zoey and Ziggy (her and my claims to fame). She ate two medium rats about a month ago but has been constipated and continuously loosing weight. At this point she only weighs a couple pounds at most. She is still attentive and knows when I open the cage, will sniff at food but will not snap at it just back away. She has large lumps towards the end of her tail and has been getting out some feces but they are watery and a light green, I called my snake vet (again)and they left a message for him to get back to me. I am thinking at this point that I need to take her in and soon, she looks terrible.
Any suggestions would be helpful. I thought before it could be dehydration but she has plenty of clean water near her and has been staying to her hide box which I have been changing out every couple of days since i am making the moss "swampy".
This is a picture of her prior to breeding, she was overweight and overfed, she was being fed a large rat twice a week because she was starved before. Could it be complications due to feeding? She has had normal feedings and appetite up until about three months ago but has eaten sporadically when offered in between that time and now.

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Jess
2.4 adult BRBs (Sango, Dude, Copper, Cleo, Cherry, Dudette)
1.1 baby BRBs born 6/18/06 my first litter(Zeek, Isis)
0.1 baby BRB produced by Dave Colling (Sable)
1.1 Pacific/celestial Parrotlets (Dewey and Delilah)
1.1 MORE Pacific/Celestial Parrotlets (Tickle and Booger)
1.0 normal corn (Pop the Cornsnake)
1.1 african brown house snake (Nellie, Lacie)
1.1 crested geckos (Chips, Dijon)
1.1 western hognoses (Google, Yahoo)
0.1 paranoid mother "too many snakes!"
1.0 significant other that gives me a funny look when I say a baby snake is cute

At this point sounds like she needs to see a vet.

For future, a large rat twice a week is too much food. Even if underfed before, steady feedings of less food will do the trick. Past a certain point and more food just means more poop, NOT more nutrition for your snake.

excerpt from my care sheet...

"Adult males can do well on 20 medium sized rats per year. A breeding female will require two to three times as much to eat."

depending on definitions of size, one large rat can equal 2 mediums.

I have all my breeder females on a weekly (or every two week) feeding schedule. If they are not appropriate size at start of breeding season, they don't get bred and have the year off to regain their weight. Lean muscular adults make for better breeders than fat lazy ones.

Sorry to hear of your troubles. IMO sounds like maybe you tried to rush things??
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Don't worry Dave, thats not what I fed her. I got her from people in Palo Alto who were feeding her that, they wanted to "fatten her up" because she had not been fed in about 8 months before that or something, their story wasn't very clear. I was just happy to get a snake that NEEDED rescuing, even if it was from people with good intentions. She was also kept in a garage with no heat in the middle of October when it started dropping temps.
Dont worry, I dont try to push weight on. If they're not ready, they're not ready. I am going to try calling my vet at lunch today. I get paid tomorrow so I am hoping to take her in then. No new chameleons this week.
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Jess
2.4 adult BRBs (Sango, Dude, Copper, Cleo, Cherry, Dudette)
1.1 baby BRBs born 6/18/06 my first litter(Zeek, Isis)
0.1 baby BRB produced by Dave Colling (Sable)
1.1 Pacific/celestial Parrotlets (Dewey and Delilah)
1.1 MORE Pacific/Celestial Parrotlets (Tickle and Booger)
1.0 normal corn (Pop the Cornsnake)
1.1 african brown house snake (Nellie, Lacie)
1.1 crested geckos (Chips, Dijon)
1.1 western hognoses (Google, Yahoo)
0.1 paranoid mother "too many snakes!"
1.0 significant other that gives me a funny look when I say a baby snake is cute

Jess,
...The lumps might be retained slugs.
Jeff

>>Don't worry Dave, thats not what I fed her. I got her from people in Palo Alto who were feeding her that, they wanted to "fatten her up" because she had not been fed in about 8 months before that or something, their story wasn't very clear. I was just happy to get a snake that NEEDED rescuing, even if it was from people with good intentions. She was also kept in a garage with no heat in the middle of October when it started dropping temps.
>>Dont worry, I dont try to push weight on. If they're not ready, they're not ready. I am going to try calling my vet at lunch today. I get paid tomorrow so I am hoping to take her in then. No new chameleons this week.
>>-----
>>Jess
>>2.4 adult BRBs (Sango, Dude, Copper, Cleo, Cherry, Dudette)
>>1.1 baby BRBs born 6/18/06 my first litter(Zeek, Isis)
>>0.1 baby BRB produced by Dave Colling (Sable)
>>1.1 Pacific/celestial Parrotlets (Dewey and Delilah)
>>1.1 MORE Pacific/Celestial Parrotlets (Tickle and Booger)
>>1.0 normal corn (Pop the Cornsnake)
>>1.1 african brown house snake (Nellie, Lacie)
>>1.1 crested geckos (Chips, Dijon)
>>1.1 western hognoses (Google, Yahoo)
>>0.1 paranoid mother "too many snakes!"
>>1.0 significant other that gives me a funny look when I say a baby snake is cute

In that case would they be from last year? I never noticed lumps of that size after she gave birth. Would they have to be surgically removed?
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Jess
2.4 adult BRBs (Sango, Dude, Copper, Cleo, Cherry, Dudette)
1.1 baby BRBs born 6/18/06 my first litter(Zeek, Isis)
0.1 baby BRB produced by Dave Colling (Sable)
1.1 Pacific/celestial Parrotlets (Dewey and Delilah)
1.1 MORE Pacific/Celestial Parrotlets (Tickle and Booger)
1.0 normal corn (Pop the Cornsnake)
1.1 african brown house snake (Nellie, Lacie)
1.1 crested geckos (Chips, Dijon)
1.1 western hognoses (Google, Yahoo)
0.1 paranoid mother "too many snakes!"
1.0 significant other that gives me a funny look when I say a baby snake is cute

Jess,
...Yes possibly from last year. They sometimes get passed months after the birth of the rest of the litter. Sometimes they do not pass and can later cause problems like what you are having. Surgical removal is expensive and may leave the snake unable to reproduce in the future. Try palpating the lumps to see if they are slug size. They will feel much harder than a viable baby or a fresh slug. Best solution I know of is to make sure the snake is well hydrated and activity like swimming may help to pass old slugs.
Good luck,
Jeff

>>In that case would they be from last year? I never noticed lumps of that size after she gave birth. Would they have to be surgically removed?
>>-----
>>Jess
>>2.4 adult BRBs (Sango, Dude, Copper, Cleo, Cherry, Dudette)
>>1.1 baby BRBs born 6/18/06 my first litter(Zeek, Isis)
>>0.1 baby BRB produced by Dave Colling (Sable)
>>1.1 Pacific/celestial Parrotlets (Dewey and Delilah)
>>1.1 MORE Pacific/Celestial Parrotlets (Tickle and Booger)
>>1.0 normal corn (Pop the Cornsnake)
>>1.1 african brown house snake (Nellie, Lacie)
>>1.1 crested geckos (Chips, Dijon)
>>1.1 western hognoses (Google, Yahoo)
>>0.1 paranoid mother "too many snakes!"
>>1.0 significant other that gives me a funny look when I say a baby snake is cute

I will try that when I get home tonight, now that you are telling me about it I looked up some articles on the net and it sounds like thats what it is and that the slugs have hardened. they are larger than her normal feces so it makes sense. Especially since she is still passing some fecal matter. I will call another vet to see if I can get her in tomorrow and I am going to try giving her a bath tonight and get her swimming around. I would prefer not to have to pay for xrays and surgery if it can be resolved at home.
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Jess
2.4 adult BRBs (Sango, Dude, Copper, Cleo, Cherry, Dudette)
1.1 baby BRBs born 6/18/06 my first litter(Zeek, Isis)
0.1 baby BRB produced by Dave Colling (Sable)
1.1 Pacific/celestial Parrotlets (Dewey and Delilah)
1.1 MORE Pacific/Celestial Parrotlets (Tickle and Booger)
1.0 normal corn (Pop the Cornsnake)
1.1 african brown house snake (Nellie, Lacie)
1.1 crested geckos (Chips, Dijon)
1.1 western hognoses (Google, Yahoo)
0.1 paranoid mother "too many snakes!"
1.0 significant other that gives me a funny look when I say a baby snake is cute

I agree with Jeff. I currently have a 5 year old female that retained 2 infertile ova after giving birth to 7 live young and 3 still borns last year. She had bred once before for me (2 years ago) without a problem. She's feeding sporadically but has fed more normally lately and I'm hoping she'll pass these infertile ova. Although I do believe females that are bred too young, bred repeatedly in consecutive years, or kepted obese in a cage too small can contribute to retained ova. However, I have not seen any distinct patterns to this condition in my collection. I have seen production decreases and increases in still borns in females bred in consecutive years (even though they were able to rebound in weight prior to re breeding). I have other friends who also breed BRBs successfully and have had the same problem. Tom Chiang