Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Who produces the best jungles.

Frank Martin has some sick super salmon jungles. PK just added some jungle crosses to his website. And you can score some nice jungles in the KS classifieds. 08 should be the year of jungles for sure!

Greg

I picked up a really nice pair from Mark Hauge last year, not sure if he's producing more this year. Very clean F2's from Barker stock!!

Bo-Peep...

and Woody...

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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

i have a male from marks jungle litter! he is amazing, gets more pink every shed!!

bc

That was an amazing litter. Jungle x Jungle (F1 sibs) From that one would expect...

25% super Jungles
50% Jungles
25% Normals

I don't know how his percentages turned out but to me even more important was the clear distinction between the three groups. No gray areas between. Was easy to visually looka t each baby and decide super/jungle/normal!! No Possible anything!!

Not all jungles are created equall, just as with any morph, what it is crossed with can and does have an affect on the morph appearance. Some pairings produce better, cleaner looking babies than others.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Mark H. had a great litter like Dave mentioned, Frank Martin have some killer super salmon jungles that are insane and clean and I would also consider Steve Ihrig who mated his lipstick sunglow to a jungle and has salmon jungle het lipstick still available

here is the father to the litter

here's a female I got from the litter

hope it helps you
Bob

I would have to say that of all the jungles that "I" have seen(I've been looking at nothing BUT for 2 months),as well as the genetics that they carry, Rick Stronulis has the best jungles going. He's been into then as long at Pete and started with the same blood...really good guy to do business with...and GREAT animals!

of any jungles from this guy as I not aware of him, sorry. Pete has a couple of nice things over there but that hypermelanistic anery is tops in my book
Bob

Well that depends on what you consider a jungle now a days. As they say different strokes for different folks.

I personally like Danny Bristow's dominant striped line boas. Considering the prices I have seen some "jungles" or "striped" boas being sold for they are worth it.

I have seen these called Jungle, Super Jungle, Striped and even the one female Super Striped either way they are beautiful.

Hope you enjoy the pics!!!

Lankey

If you are interested I have more photos of different boas from this line. Also posted in the photo gallery under boas type in Keyword=Stripes. Look at his litter and all his babies from 06'.

I'm a little confused by your post Lankey. By jungle he means a proven codominant morph that started in Sweden. There are a number of striped boas (Aby line or the Schneller's ginger line for instance) that may have a "jungle-ish" appearance, but they are not jungles.

Yes, I agree 100% the original jungles started from the Swedish line. But I do not believe he specified Swedish and now a days you see boas that I strongly believe come from co-dominant stripe and are sold as jungles.

I also believe that alot of the animals you say now adays advertised as jungles, for the most part, have bred out the original zig-zag pattern.
Examples: In the photo gallery under boa constrictors type in jungle in the keyword search engine go to page 2 and 4th pic. To me this is just as our small boa which is out of a proven co-dominant stripe line but yet they are represented as jungles. Another example is on the Forums here under Some Striping the first reply was a question of whether these were jungle/super jungle boas and I believe these are out of a dominant magma stripe line.

I was just really stating earlier that now the word "jungle" does not necessarily mean what was originally produced and presented to us as a "jungle" just my opinion though. But hey if it is your animal you can call it what you want though. LOL!!!

Lankey

That would have been me asking if those were Jungles.
I'm still trying to get an understanding of the Jungle morph/trait. I know virtually nothing about them. However, I'm determined to learn and to understand them -- and to own some as soon as I'm able.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Yes, the name "jungle" is most of the reason why there is so much confusion over this gene. There is a BIG difference between the swedish jungle gene and any other known stripe,zig zag or genetically abberant boa be it dom. codom. or recessive. The lesser form of the swedish jungle can be hard to identify especially as a baby, so considering the cost of these and the work and food that goes into raising it and proving it out it is easy to see why some people get angry when the name is thrown around loosely. Lets call the swedish jungle line "jungles" and be happy that we can make up our own names for any other gene that we discover along the way.

If you call an animal a jungle that implies that it is a descendant of the Swedish jungles. If you call a stripe line or similar animal a jungle just because it's heavily striped that is misrepresentation. It's like passing off 50/50 BCC crosses as pure BCCs just because you think you can.

and calling them jungles is their opinion no matter how little they know. Someone did ask if that was a jungle in a previous post, but I assure you that they were asking cuz they didn't know. If someone posts a normal bci with tons of black in the side markings, dark a-- saddle color and someone asks, hey is that a pastel, does that make it a pastel. You posted some cool boas that have stripes and all jungles don't have stripes obviously but from my understanding it is also a color enhancer. Those pics you showed don't appear to have much color to them so that would be the first sign of why I wouldn't call that one or those jungles. If someone wants to purchase a "jungle" and doesn't inquire about the genetic background, then you have someone who thinks they bought a jungle has babies and sells them as jungles again so it is downhill since day one. So misrepresentation will always be there, I just won't be apart of it, just my thoughts and they aren't even valuable enough to wipe your bottom with it
Bob

You asked who produces the best jungles..... I think it is always a good idea to ask for photos of the parents. It says something about a breeder if he/she is willing to provide current, and accurate, photos of the parents. Consider the quality of the photos. It is easy to "increase the quality" of a boas appearance by manipulating lighting for indoor photos or using different weather conditions and times of the day for outdoor photos. If you are serious about your prospective purchase, there is no reason that you should not be able to ask for additional photos to clarify any doubts you may have.

Anyway you slice it, if someone is spending money on a boa with the intention of producing a litter(s), weather it is $100 or $10,000, the return on investment is an issue, regardless of how much they paid for the boa. In the green tree python and carpet python markets, photos of the parents are what determine the pricing of the offspring. I feel this is a fair approach. Let's assume someone pays the extra money to purchase a "higher quality" boa which possesses more of the desired characteristics than the alternative. Provided the genetics work as the buyer was hoping, their offspring should hopefully at a minimum sell faster than the alternative. Ideally, they will realize a higher market price than the alternative.

Typically, it is safe to assume that quality parents will produce quality offspring. All too often breeders will put a average pair of boas together and assume they can slide into the market at the high end of the market price range when they attempt to sell their babies. Usually they wind up undercutting the market so they can sell their babies. Consider the hypo market. There are hypos available for $150 to over $2,000. As breeding continues over the years, the breeders with the $2,000 hypos will sell more babies at premium prices. The initial investment will be recuperated many, many, many times over. Good examples of this process in the BCC world are Gus Rentfro and Barry Miller. There are reasons for their longevity. Quality vs. quantity. I am much happier with my boas that have risen to my expectations. They give me more options as my collection continues to evolve. Furthermore, it feels good when someone calls me and says they are happy with their purchase because they feel like they got their moneys worth. More boas = less time and higher overhead. I don't care what a boa looks like, more boas = more poop, and I don't like poop.

Also, ask questions. Quite often breeders won't be forthright with the history of the parents, ie. inbreeding, crossing with other subspecies, and/or health issues to name a few. Other questions I like to ask someone I am not familiar with are, what do you know about this market? What are you producing this year and over the next couple years that will affect the market? If I am spending a premium on this boa what attempts are you going to make to preserve the market? This can give a better idea about the longevity of your investment. If you don't ask you will not know until it is too late. If a breeder does not want to answer these questions there may be a reason. If they do answer these questions you will have to assume they are being truthful, or better yet, do more research to confirm points of your conversation.

Remember, you said you wanted the best. The best will affect your appreciation, potential for longevity, ego, and don't forget, your pocket book. If you want the best, unfortunately it costs money. Personally, if I am going to spend my hard earned money on a boa of all things..... I want to buy from someone who provides a sense of comfort through honesty, an up front approach, knowledge, and a willingness to help me if I need it through an exchange of experiences. I want an ally who will remain stable and has a long term plan and keeps his/her clients in mind. I tend to look at the breeders who are attempting contribute to the selective breeding of the particular boa I am interested in as apposed to the “best deal” I can find through mass production or the undercutting of the market. Remember you are purchasing a specific boa that could live for twenty years or more. There are quite a few good jungle breeders who have available jungles or some on the way. The amount of time someone has been working with jungles does not guarantee the quality, lineage, or health of a boa, the character of the breeder, or the satisfaction you will get from your purchase.

Just my opinions.

Steve

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NOT A JUNGLE.
YOU CAN PUT A BENTLEY EMBLEM ON A YUGO AND ITS STILL A YUGO!!!

I agree with the Steve (SDI)Looking at the Parents is Major part of making a decision on Buying Jungles.
About the Post above about A good friend of mine Rick Stanulis(correct spelling) is true. He has Awesome animals and Thats where I got my stock Many years ago from him.

Thanks alot
Michael T
Boas Etc