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I had three pueblan 07 hatchlings go off feeding this fall.One was exposed to an inadvertant drop in temperature to about 63 degrees for a night. Another was eating well from August until early Nov and a third was a second clutch and was a reluctant feeder since hatched in Sept...Most advised me all three were unlikely to feed again unles brumated for about 60 days at 60 degrees...I kept the second two going with assist feeding, force feeding, scenting etc. but was tiring of that...The first snake I mentioned did begin feeding again after 14 days and raising the daytime temperature in the room from around 80 degrees to 84-86 degrees.It took a live fuzzie crawling all over him in his hide box to get him started but that did get him over the hump!.. The wondered if the other two needed to be brumated so long. They were not being prepped for breeding, just to get them thinking it's springtime and time to eat again...I picked an arbitrary time period of 21 days to brumate at 60 degrees in darkness... I brought them up from 60 to 84 degrees in 5 days Yep, they ate thawed pinkies without hesitation on the fifth day and ate again four days later. Just something to think about!

Hmmm... I think I remember your original post. Let me see if I got the story right:

You had 3 non-feeding campbelli, of which one was exposed to sub-optimal temps and 2 just didn't show interest. You were keeping them at a constant 80F. You put the two non-interested critters in cooling (60F) an kept the other (the one exposed to 63F for a night) up and raised the temp of the room to 84F. It fed after two weeks. The others you brought out of cooling after five weeks and put them into the 84F room.

Now, I have a few questions. Was the actual cage temp 80F to begin with (before you heated things up), or just the thermostat on the wall? That can make a huge difference. Do the snakes have a supplemental heat source (other than ambient room temp.)?

Some experienced snake-keepers use the "constant heat" approach (no thermal gradient), which it sounds like you're using. It can be very tricky to get things right, and some keepers who use this approach report a lesser feeding resonse than keepers who allow a thermal gradient. A good friend of mine uses the "constant heat" approach, but provides a thermal gradient for animals with feeding problems and ovulating females. Snakes will naturally use a range of temperatures. I feel that 80F on a wall thermostat may be too cool to get much of a feeding response out of campbelli. A reading of 80F on the wall may mean that the cage is really only 76F, or so.

Bringing the temperature of the room up to 84F may have been the ultimate trigger in getting the animals to feed. In fact, I strongly suggest that this is the case. The cooling at 60F for 5 weeks MAY have been irrelevant. With a sample size of 3, and not knowing the details of your husbandry, it's hard to say. Cooling non-feeders oftend DOES bring them back into feeding mode, if they're allowed proper temperatures when they are warmed back up. Either way, keep us postd, and if you have feeding trouble again, I'd look into providing a good thermal gradient (maybe 75F on the cool side to 88F on the warm side).

Just my 2 cents...
-Cole

L. t. polyzona

Thomas Co., NE L. t. multistrata

Ty for your response and input..I know an experiment with a sample of 3 won't make any science journal but results can be thought provoking..lots of variables tho! Ok, to respond as best I can to your points!I keep the snakes in my utility room so when the boiler goes on it incresases the room temperature above the thermostat temp set at 70 degrees; the range of room temp is 76-81 degrees over 24 hour period. I have 6 Pueblan hatchlings in the room; three have been strong eaters since i got them in early fall '07 and have not changed their eating behavior at all during these colder months;... the other three I addressed in this post... Some details re: the two I brumated: One I had for about 6 weeks before it went off feeding; it was a strong feeder until around early Nov. The other one was second clutch and sporatic feeder from get-go.I housed both in separate Lock and lock plastic containers as sold in Walmarts,8in x 6 in x 2.5in with plenty of 1/8 inch holes punched in both ends and lid..a heating element under 2 inches of each cage. A room temp of 81 degrees produces a inside cage temp of 78 degrees at cool end and 90 degrees under the heating element..rare to find either snake sitting on the heated end, usually down at the other end under newspaper which covers the bottom of the whole cage..water bowl and hide box in each cage but snakes seem to prefer going under the newspaper ....you mentioned I brumated for 5 weeks ..no, it was 21 days at 60 degrees in dark with 5 days geting them down to 60 degrees and 5 days coming back up to low 80s ...Im leaning toward thinking the brumation did the trick and that a shorter brumation than generally recommended is adequate..I'm assuming that 60 day criteria is a formula to address brumating for breeding purposes; that a snake going off feed because of a seasonal response can be brumated for a shorter period to recover the feeding response...

I think your temps are fine but might turn the heat tape down a tad. 76-81 (inside the cage) has worked like charm for me and I'm maniacal about temp mapping the snake room.
The advice you got for cooling them was accurate in this case and as far as duration, I've got no consistent results because each snake seems to have its own trigger. I pick 30 or 60 days and have an approximately equal success/failure rate with either.
The second clutch animal might have his own feeding clock which is different than the other 2 at least for now. He might become the chow-hound in another year.
Good luck with them training you!
Jeff

While I was scolding one of the milks for being difficult I realized that maybe this tip can be useful to you:
downsize the meal items (especially after cooling) and brain the mouse. The snake being scolded is a healthy 3 foot adult milk that grew up on fuzzies then hoppers then weaned mice and now refuses them all but plowed through a pile of very large brained pinks like a starving badger. He'll be back onto large mice at summers end but for now, it's gotta be tiny brained prey items.
And so the reptile becomes the master.
Jeff

Excellent point, Jeff! I've always got a few critters who refuse their usual meal size, but will gobble a fist-full of pinks when I bring them out of cooling. I've got a female syspila who fed on hopper mice all through the summer and fall, but then began to refuse anything but large mouse pinks and small rat pinks.

-Cole

I've had many experiences such as this and can be so dang frustrating, but once he rythm has been established, bingo. A few of my agalma that are a honkin' 3 - 3.5 feet will not accept anything but pinks after brumation and, by May typically, are back on small mice. I've also had similar experiences like this with subocs and pyros as well, but have largely been individualized situations and not in general. How 'bout them Packers eh???

Jerry Kruse

I had snakes do that size thing.....eat anything for a few weeks then go back to small fuzz only.........an eastern milk would eat peromyscus for a few weeks after brumation, then anything, then after he'd stop in summer for awhile he'd eat pero's for awhile in the later part of summer till brumation again...

ball babies,,,I have the opposite.......I have a couple that ate..then stopped.I use smaller meals when they stop so they aren't as afraid and don't get hurt, seems a couple wanted bigger....they missed like 4 meals of hoppers so one day while feeding it's "here's a big mouse, eat or die, Bam, same saneks did it during test feedings in the next few weeks....small in, nothing, big, wham......

......when my critters stop eating normal stuff I just switch to a different prey...it has bitten me in the butt too many times,,,they don't always go back to regular mice/ rats....

rats and mice.....
(peromyscus,chinese hamster, african soft rats, gerbils,I have always...)
and I have used syrian hamster,russian hamster, degus ,spiny mice,guinea pigs, rabbits and chicks.....

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snakes train us all the time.--as you mentioned earlier......
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(I love how people have a company name and all , maybe even a website,BEFORE they know anything OR ever bred one snake clutch...!!LOL.makes me wonder when they ask questions that any paperback, piece of crap book would answer)......
just a thought.....
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In light of your response, it sounds like the temperature issue wasn't the problem I suspected it to be. Like Jeff said, each snake has individual preferences (as I'm sure you're finding out with 6 pueblans). The key is to be observant and cater to what the snakes want. As for what it takes in terms of temp. and duration of cooling to "reset" a snake... that's also highly variable: it differs between populations (subspecies) and is likely to be different for different biological functions (whether you're trying to restart the feeding response or cycle the animals for breeding, etc.).

Basically, pay attention to your animals and don't be afraid to post your questions. The folks on this forum are a friendly lot, and can be a wealth of information.

-Cole