Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Greetings fellow herpers and feeder people. I'm not having much luck searching for info on the web, so does anyone know what the California laws are pertaining to the sales of feeder mice? Obviously the people who sell to the reptile stores are doing it legally. I was at Amazon Reptile yesterday but I forgot to ask them about this.

Backstory: The reason I ask is that I had a few extra feeder mice that bred last year. I never intended to breed mice on a large scale, but somehow now I have hundreds of mice. I keep them in 66 qt sterilite tubs w/ aspen bedding. I keep separating them into different tubs so they're not overcrowded, but they're breeding faster than I can feed them to my colubrids.

I've tried euthanizing some of them with both liquid CO2 and dry ice w/ water, but those methods cause the mice to suffer. They go into respiratory distress, etc... I've now read that dry ice without water actually puts them to sleep before they die, so that's what I'll be doing from now on. The only other humane method is to use a proper CO2 monitor and regulator that can deliver CO2 at a rate of 19.5% air volume per minute. CO2 monitors are pretty expensive from what I've seen so far though.

Anyway, I need to cut down on my mouse population, as it's just getting to be too much work, and I don't want to have more mice than I can properly care for. I don't want to get busted for selling them illegally however. Can I sell them legally? What steps would I have to take to be able to sell them legally? If I cannot sell them legally can I give them away or trade them? I need to know these things before I consider placing an ad in the classifieds here on kingsnake.com. I don't want to be in violation of this website or my state laws.

Thanks kindly,

Jason Dunn
Lytle Creek, CA

I use a paintball 20 oz refillable co2 tank and a "remote coil". It has a valve where you can let the co2 in slowly but no actual guage, It seems to work well enough if I turn on the co2 just barely and let it build up slowly, They just go calmly to sleep for the most part. Once they drop off unconscious then I flood the chamber, turn off the co2 and leave the chamber sealed for 5-10 mins to kill them off.

Sorry I don;t know about the CA laws if any.

I didn't know about remote coils, so I got a Kobalt CO2 regulator at the hardware store. It's used for their pneumatic power tools and comes with a 9 oz. paintball style tank. It screws onto the top of the tank and has a meter. They're about $70 at the hardware store. Even when you barely turn it on though, it's probably putting out around 10 psi.

If I can find a CO2 monitor I can afford I'll give that method another try. Until then I'll probably stick with dry ice, no water. I definitely want the mice to go to sleep and not experience hypoxia, or whatever that's called when they're gasping for air. I suppose I could use a clear container and visually verify that the mice are asleep first, but I'd feel a lot better with a CO2 monitor that can measure the percentage of CO2 per air volume.

Thanks for your help. Last night I was reading some other threads that you've contributed to, and one post pointed to an excellent thread over on the ballpythonforums. That's where I learned that dry ice without water achieves the desired effect. I'm still trying to find out about the laws though.

The remote coil is used for paintball, basically to allow you to use a larger tank and run the coil to the gun rather than mounting the tank right on the gun. It's just the valve, coil and quick connect on the other end.

20 oz tank was about $25 at a chain called "Bad Boyz Toyz" and if I leave on their sticker they give free refills on tuesdays.

The remote coil I ordered off Ebay for about $23, so it was under $50 for both.

If it were me I would call a couple pet stores and see if they will buy them or if they know the laws. If you are gonna make a habit of it you will likely need to be licensed with the USDA. Couple time sales isn't gonna matter. If you want to make a business of selling them you are gonna need permits etc. Contact the CA DEC website or similar. Otherwise I would say, stop putting boys with the girls....might cut down on the problem.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

That sounds like good advice. I've separated a lot of males and females, but every time I do that I need twice as many tubs. It's starting to take up a lot of space, so there's still a lot that I haven't separated yet. At this point I definitely need to euthanize and freeze some. The CO2 monitor I was looking at costs like $1,700, so I won't be buying that anytime soon.

I called one of my local reptile stores to ask about the laws, but they didn't know. They did say that other people they know of have sold feeders on kingsnake or in the recycler without any problem. As you said, a few sales shouldn't be a big deal, but if I were to make a full time business of it, I'd definitely need to take the necessary steps to be legal.

I've asked a few reptile and pet stores, but they all seem to be very loyal to the breeders who already supply them. I can understand that. It looks like I should get a kingsnake account and try to sell them to other snake breeders here in So Cal. I've got some leopard geckos to sell too, so I guess it's time to sign up.

Okay, gotta clean some more tubs now. lol

>>I've asked a few reptile and pet stores, but they all seem to be very loyal to the breeders who already supply them.

They must have some big time breeders and cheap or they just aren't moving as many right now.
Our single private upstate NY shop moves 100-200 mice a week right now. Half again as many in the summer. I don't think we ever have turned away mice. If we have too many live we freezer some.
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Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

Yes there are several breeders here in the So. Cal area. I went ahead and put an ad up on the classifieds. I doubt I'll do this forever, but right now I have plenty of mice, so hopefully I can move a few.
My ad

Can you explain the dry ice method you use without water? I currently use the dry ice method with water and it works great. I am curious though about how to do it without water. If you could elaborate on this that would be great. Thanks

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"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an egg-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

1.0 Red Iguana "Rusty"
0.1 North American Black Pinesnake "Sidney"
0.1 Axanthic Brooks Kingsnake "Aimers"
1.0 Albino Argentina Horned "Pacman" Frog "Chubbs"

Actually I haven't tried the "no water" dry ice method yet, but I likely will in the next few days. Here's the link.

link to thread

Hey thanks for the link! That is an awsome ideal! I will give it a try next time I have to do the deed! Thanks
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"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an egg-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

1.0 Red Iguana "Rusty"
0.1 North American Black Pinesnake "Sidney"
0.1 Axanthic Brooks Kingsnake "Aimers"
1.0 Albino Argentina Horned "Pacman" Frog "Chubbs"

My first ad was removed because I didn't list a price. I've re-posted it with prices now. I'm not trying to advertise here, just wanted to update the link for anyone reading this thread.
My feeder ad