Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've not worked with Hondurans before but I am really getting into all of the various morphs that I see posted here. My understanding is that they are wriggly, bitey and poopy as babies but tend to calm down once they get older. My question is, do I have to consistently work with them as babies for them to calm down as adults or can I just feed and clean while they are young and then work with them as they get older? I've kept snakes for quite a while so I would not consider myself a newbie, and I am not really adverse to wriggly, bitey and poopy, but my focus until now has been on sand boas and corn snakes so I am just wondering what I would be getting myself into. Thanks for your help.

Rob

I feel it's always a good idea to handle your snakes regularly. A snake that sees a hand only at feeding time will become "conditioned" to associate the hand with food and will inevitably wind up striking at some point in a feeding response. That could happen with even the most docile snake.

All but the most nervous babies will settle down after a few minutes of being held. Try to handle them once a week other then feeding time and you really should be fine.
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

Thanks I appreciate the info. I do try to handle my snakes somewhat regularly but for me that means 2-3 minutes every couple of days for visual inspections. Not what I would call excessive.

I would say, though, that in my opinion the idea of snakes being conditioned to bite the hand that feeds them can be overated. Over the years I have worked with hundreds of snakes and I don't think I would have ever considered one of them to be conditioned to cage opening equals food equals strike blindly. Cages are opened many times where no food is present in the course of basic husbandry and I think if this is being done it would be very difficult for a snake to become conditioned in that way. This is not to say that snakes can not have a strong feeding response, nor to say that I have never been bitten in a feeding accident. Just that I am not sure that it was a result of conditioning as much as the scent of thawing food or food scent on my hands.

Just some thoughts. As I said, I have just never worked with Hondurans so I was trying to get an idea of what to expect. Thanks again. I appreciate the input.

Rob

>>I feel it's always a good idea to handle your snakes regularly. A snake that sees a hand only at feeding time will become "conditioned" to associate the hand with food and will inevitably wind up striking at some point in a feeding response. That could happen with even the most docile snake.
>>
>>All but the most nervous babies will settle down after a few minutes of being held. Try to handle them once a week other then feeding time and you really should be fine.
>>-----
>>"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

Rob,
I agree! I check on my snakes on a daily basis. This means that I just pull their tub from the rack and inspect their bowls for water and see if I need to spot clean any substrate. On average I add water to their bowls every 2-3 days and change their substrate as needed, meaning a partial change, and a complete substrate and tub cleaning every couple of months. I have a pretty good sized collection, about 150 snakes. I feed my neo-to-yearlings about 2-3 times a week, and my adults 1-2 times a week.
Now, with all this activity, I find it completely obsurd that any snake in my collection could be "conditioned" for a feeding responce every time a tub opens. I do not hold every snake in my collection on a regular basis. I find that they are generally better feeders the less they are handled, especially as newborns.
Some of my newborns are very dossil, even though they are not held often, and I also have some snakes that even as adults are nothing but attitude as soon as the tub is opened. A large adult male Scarlet King comes to mind. He will fly out of the tub and bite the first thing he comes in contact with, meanwhile flinging feces everywhere. LOL!! Every snake is an individual. Most Hondurans are jumpy as neonates, but do calm down as adults, but I have seen some that are calm as neos and some that are complete beasts as adults. I think for the "conditioning" theory to work, your husbandry would be very minimal at best.
-Phil
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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

Phil,
You did say you go into their tubs just about every day, even if it's to just remove poop or add water. They see your hand more often then for food. Don't you think that would prevent them from associating it with nothing more then food?
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"The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think. Oh by the way, which ones pink?"

That is my point. I think that the average person that is on top of their snakes husbandry, will open the tubs for cleaning, watering and checkups more often than feeding. A snake that has been "conditioned" to react for feeding, everytime their tub is opened, is a neglected animal, if the "conditioning" theory is correct. Now granted, this is just my theory. Which could be totally bogus! LOL!!
-Phil
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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

Hi Rob,

I think your understanding is correct. While I do think it is a good idea to handle them in an effort to calm them down, it may not be practical depending on the size of your collection. In our experience about 98% of Hondurans will calm down quite a bit during their first 2 years without much handling. I have never been bitten by an adult Honduran and we do not spend a great deal of time handling them because of numbers we have. This does not mean that it can not happen. I hope this helps.

Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC
www.thoroughbredexotics.com

Thanks Joe,

That is just what I was looking for. I understand that it is always possible to get bitten (I have been bitten a couple of times over the past 15 years...LOL) but I was just wanting to know what to expect if I go down this road. I appreciate the input and, just so you know, yours are some of the animals that have been posted that have been tempting me.

Rob

>>Hi Rob,
>>
>>I think your understanding is correct. While I do think it is a good idea to handle them in an effort to calm them down, it may not be practical depending on the size of your collection. In our experience about 98% of Hondurans will calm down quite a bit during their first 2 years without much handling. I have never been bitten by an adult Honduran and we do not spend a great deal of time handling them because of numbers we have. This does not mean that it can not happen. I hope this helps.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Joe Exposito
>>Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC
>>www.thoroughbredexotics.com

Just so ya know I only have one baby hondo with an attitude right now... funny it's the female ghost I got from you -- she bites w/o hesitation and seems to rather 'enjoy' gnawing on my hand! It's starting to be less cute and hurt a lil' more! By the way she is picking up a yellowish tinge to her whole body but looks as if she won't tip out that bad @ all!

Chris

Hi Chris,

Send me a pic or post one if you can. The mother of that one is pictured on the (Tongue Flicker) post. Yours is only about 7 months old, so give her a little more time and she should calm down quite a bit. Are you going to the Tampa show in March?

Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC

This is the mother.

Rob,

I've been keeping Hondos for 20 years and your information on the disposition of babies is correct. I don't handle them at all (except for cage cleaning) until they get to be about 2 feet long. At that point some calm down, while others need a little more time - but in my experience they are all very easy to handle when they reach adulthood.

I've known of more than one person who has had a baby injure itself because the snake whipped around while being handled. Strangely it seems that some of the morphs are more calm as babies that normal Hondos. I've had several people tell me this and have experienced it myself.

Hondurans are great snakes, despite their unhandle-ability as babies

Tim

Third Eye

Thanks Tim,

I appreciate the info. I have predominantly kept boids over the years but have recently been looking at getting into some coubrids. I moved north and now have the perfect basement for brumation and it was like someone pulled blinders off of my eyes where temperate snakes were concerned. I have always admired the tricolors and have been seeing some amazing picture here lately so I think I am close to taking the plunge. I also, really like the apricot and halloween pueblans. I don't mind being hands off with youngsters but I do like to know that there will be a time down the road when the snake will be more handleable.

Thanks again.
Rob

>>Rob,
>>
>>I've been keeping Hondos for 20 years and your information on the disposition of babies is correct. I don't handle them at all (except for cage cleaning) until they get to be about 2 feet long. At that point some calm down, while others need a little more time - but in my experience they are all very easy to handle when they reach adulthood.
>>
>>I've known of more than one person who has had a baby injure itself because the snake whipped around while being handled. Strangely it seems that some of the morphs are more calm as babies that normal Hondos. I've had several people tell me this and have experienced it myself.
>>
>>Hondurans are great snakes, despite their unhandle-ability as babies
>>
>>Tim
>>
>>Third Eye

this is why.

I could keep going but you get the clue.LOL... hope you get in cause the possibilities are endless.

Shannon
West Coast Hondurans

Good thing I upgraded to DSL a while back.

If I was still using this computer with just AOL, you would have just murdered my phone line. It probably would've blown up.

Nice snakes though.
=]
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.kingpinreptiles.com

Shannon you have an awesome collection thanks for sharing the pics!!!!

Rob,

I been working with Hondos for almost two years and my experience was primarily pythons and boas. I LOVE my Hondos they are such an amazing snake. Not once have I been bit, they eat like crazy and only one has musked me... They are skirmy and very nervous but once they grow up they are tame as a kitten.. I do handle mine once a week.

Outside of corns Hondos are my pick for easy to work with/rewarding.

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Jason A.
"Long time Herper, first year Breeder `07."
My 2008 Care Sheet & The BRB Stats. Username: brb@kingsnake.com

WoW Shannon!
This one is awesome! Do you produce any that resemble this one often?
-Phil

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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

I agree... that one is awesome!! I'll take two or three... lol!!
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Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

yeah, I wish.
I bred him one year and then he just up and died.I was able to get 2.1 babies out of him and they should breed this year or next year for sure.Not sure if its genetic but looked as if he was a true motley.He had a solid belly like motleys do.

Shannon

I love the all the abberants just throw a few in my box before you ship out my other order
Chris
Link

LOL, wish I could.They are far and few between.I hope to have a couple clutches this year with aberrant stuff but you can never tell.

Shannon

Ya man I totally understand. When my to pairs of hypo tangs(06's and 07's) breed... If there are any aberrants that pop up, even if its just a little bit I will be keeping. One of the 06's has a fading band pattern so who know what they offspring will look like, thats the cool thing with hondos now days they are so diverse.
Take care
Chris

Oh man, what a bummer! At least you got some babies out of him before he went. Hopefully you'll be able to make more.
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Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Whoa... those are great!! Now you're making me want some Hondos, lol! I espicially love your abberant ones. That black one with the red spots and lines is insane!! Where can I get some of those?? The Albino and neon orange ones are awesome too. I don't know much about Hondos, so I don't know the proper names for the morphs.
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Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

You can check out my west coast hondurans site to learn all about them.

Thanks for the kind words.
Shannon
Link

Wow those are some beautiful critters! You are making me want some. I have 2 little corns right now, but have had more in the past. Once had a sinoloan.

I might have to consider a pair of hondos.

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Kent

Kent, thats a great looking striped ghost corn you have.
Hondurans are very rewarding in my book and I think you would find them the same.

Shannon

Thanks. He looks kind of washed out in that picture. He has a lot of yellow showing up on the lower sides of his head and neck.
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Kent

Very nice Shannon!!!
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Thomas Sierra

Thanks Bud, how are all yours doing.About to bring them up?

Shannon

I already did on 1/11 2008 and they are eating up a storm!!!!

Tom

>>Thanks Bud, how are all yours doing.About to bring them up?
>>
>>Shannon
>>
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Thomas Sierra

wow, you bring your stuff up early huh?I will start bringing mine up in two weeks (15th) and by the 1st of march they will be at 80 degrees and by about the tenth of march I will be feeding.
I bet we have clutches at about the same time anyways.Its funny how it works like that.

L8r

....who posted. I will be at Hamburg on the 23rd (anyone else going or any breeders I should look for in particular?) and I am sure that after this discussion I will have an eye for Hondos. If I tried to mention everyone who has posted pics of animals that have made me want some, I am sure I would leave out somebody. Although, Shannon, that was quite a montage you posted....LOL!

Anyway, thanks again for everyone's input. I appreciate it and am looking forward to having some Hondos in the house.

Rob